Fig wrote:
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:11:01 -0000, Tim Roll-Pickering
wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

In the past I've picked up leaflets containing timetables for the
Metropolitan line, though I can't remember what stretches of the Met
they have covered - I suspect it was just the extremities, though they
also helpfully contained a line diagram that showed the pattern of
stopping, semi-fast and fast trains - something I can't find on the
TfL website.

I'm not sure about south of Baker Street, but I recall in the mid to late
1990s the Met used timetables on the boards not the "time between
stations"
posters used for other lines. I think they also incorporated Chiltern.


I concur. I've seen leaflets specific to Met stations West of Rayner's
Lane, but only ever seen them available at the stations concerned. They
are quite detailed about train times and destinations served. I also
think, though, that the Met is probably an anomaly, combining the
sparsest and most varied service. I think.

Olympia gets a "proper" timetable given the rather odd frequency of
service (about every 17 minutes, except in the morning peak where there
are gaps of 34 minutes). It's shown prominently at Olympia, and at the
front of the westbound platform at Earl's Court. However, the online
version comes out rather oddly - it shows the full timetable *except*
for between 10pm and 11pm where it says "every 14-15 minutes"... I think
that's some issue with the software that auto-generates the timetables.


--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 10:36:14 +0000, Dave A wrote:

However, the online
version comes out rather oddly - it shows the full timetable *except*
for between 10pm and 11pm where it says "every 14-15 minutes"... I think
that's some issue with the software that auto-generates the timetables.

Some issue?

rant mode

More like the thing is completely rubbish and simply finds the narrowest
and widest intervals and then uses that to state the service frequency.
It's appalling and given that the system has the underlying detail for
every line and every bus route I utterly fail to see what that cannot be
made available to those who need it while a more sensible and intuitive
approach is found for those who prefer "simpler" information.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:11:01 -0000, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

In the past I've picked up leaflets containing timetables for the
Metropolitan line, though I can't remember what stretches of the Met
they have covered - I suspect it was just the extremities, though they
also helpfully contained a line diagram that showed the pattern of
stopping, semi-fast and fast trains - something I can't find on the
TfL website.

I have a couple of these that I picked up a year or so ago. They are
dated "from 8 January until 10 June 2006". There's a leaflet for the
Uxbridge branch (which includes an almost-complete list of departure
times, both Met and Picc, for Uxbridge station) and a booklet for the
Amersham branch (which includes a full timetable for
Amersham/Chesham/Chiltern services, even showing the times for all
stations to Aldgate).

"Mizter T" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 13 Mar, 19:01, Paul Corfield wrote:
On 13 Mar 2007 11:18:41 -0700, "Paul Weaver"
wrote:

(snip)

With a 10-15 minute wait at the extremeties,
even at 9AM, it would be nice to see when trains are due. Some lines
have a live ETA, but the central line doesn't. The WAP service at
http://wap.tfl.gov.uk/tfldepboard/tends to break down whenever I try
and use it in anger

I think the argument is that services are typically so frequent that you
don't need a timetable. I don't agree with that myself and feel that at
places like Epping the minutes past the hour that trains are due to
leave should be provided on posters / leaflets.

(snip)


In the past I've picked up leaflets containing timetables for the
Metropolitan line, though I can't remember what stretches of the Met
they have covered - I suspect it was just the extremities, though they
also helpfully contained a line diagram that showed the pattern of
stopping, semi-fast and fast trains - something I can't find on the
TfL website.

Journeyplanner will display the exact timetable for Amersham, whilst
for Harrow-on-the-Hill it shows the exact times for an hour of morning
peak time and also late night trains, and Watford only has a selection
of exact times shown.

The full Amersham/Chesham timetable is on the LU website at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/travelinf...e=metropolitan

Peter Smyth

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 10:36:14 +0000, Dave A wrote:

However, the online
version comes out rather oddly - it shows the full timetable *except*
for between 10pm and 11pm where it says "every 14-15 minutes"... I think
that's some issue with the software that auto-generates the timetables.

Some issue?

rant mode

More like the thing is completely rubbish and simply finds the narrowest
and widest intervals and then uses that to state the service frequency.
It's appalling and given that the system has the underlying detail for
every line and every bus route I utterly fail to see what that cannot be
made available to those who need it while a more sensible and intuitive
approach is found for those who prefer "simpler" information.

Hah! As long as it's not just me. I thought I was being picky. But I
think it's control freakery/madness when independent websites such as
http://www.busmap.org/ are no longer able to produce the timetables?

Unless I'm misunderstanding the message: "Important Message. London
Buses no longer produce timetables for the main bus network.
Unfortunately therefore I am unable to display a current timetable for
this route. Please contact London Buses for further information."

Luckily http://www.londonbusroutes.net/routes.htm still has the
information (though not as prettily displayed! [1]), just a shame no one
produces similar for the Underground. Thank goodness for enthusiasts!!


[1] but possible more accessible for visually impaired users.
--
Paul G
Typing from Barking

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:35:20 +0000, Paul G
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 10:36:14 +0000, Dave A wrote:

However, the online
version comes out rather oddly - it shows the full timetable *except*
for between 10pm and 11pm where it says "every 14-15 minutes"... I think
that's some issue with the software that auto-generates the timetables.

Some issue?

rant mode

More like the thing is completely rubbish and simply finds the narrowest
and widest intervals and then uses that to state the service frequency.
It's appalling and given that the system has the underlying detail for
every line and every bus route I utterly fail to see what that cannot be
made available to those who need it while a more sensible and intuitive
approach is found for those who prefer "simpler" information.

Hah! As long as it's not just me. I thought I was being picky. But I
think it's control freakery/madness when independent websites such as
http://www.busmap.org/ are no longer able to produce the timetables?

I accept it is one of those issues that gets me cross so I'm not always
very rational on this subject.

Mike Harris who runs the busmap website works for TfL and was, AIUI,
close to the production process for the panel timetables. I agree it is
utterly bizarre that they are produced for things like coach services
but not for any TfL bus services. We used to be able to get the panel
timetables via a special part of the intranet - it's now virtually
redundant. For a while Mike used the Freedom of Information process to
get panels that were still being produced after timetable changes but
not formally published. TfL then stopped the production process which
shut off the FOI route. Having to go to those lengths to obtain
*passenger* information is frankly barking mad.

The stop specific stuff is woeful in its accuracy, relevance and layout.
My local stop information is just plain wrong - even when it shows
specific times such as early morning / evening. That is just
unacceptable.

I have no issue with the concept of stop specific info if it shows ALL
departures and other helpful information such as peak and off peak
running times with an explanation to show which running times apply to
what departures. Many European cities can do this without great
problems so why London can't I simply don't know. TfL will probably
argue that market research shows information needs to be "simple" - the
problem is that the info they now provide is beyond simple, it's of no
use. I have watched far too many people look at the info at my local
stop to see what time the bus will arrive and all they get is an
interval shown. I happen to have the detailed info from Mr Munster's
site in my bag and I go out typically to get a specific departure so my
waiting time is minimised. Doesn't always work if the service is shot to
pieces but most times I have little or no waiting time. If public
transport is to be attractive then I think detailed info should be
available to those who need it. After all if cars have GPS to talk the
driver to their exact destination then why on earth do bus users have to
rely on vacuous nonsense to be able to get about.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the message: "Important Message. London
Buses no longer produce timetables for the main bus network.
Unfortunately therefore I am unable to display a current timetable for
this route. Please contact London Buses for further information."

Luckily http://www.londonbusroutes.net/routes.htm still has the
information (though not as prettily displayed! [1]), just a shame no one
produces similar for the Underground. Thank goodness for enthusiasts!!

The pdfs that are set up to print off the back of the web displayed info
are not at all bad. I have them for my local route and have printed off
and handed out copies for people I know are regular users of the
service.

London Bus Routes is excellent but only really works because of the
connections that the owner of the site has by virtue of his job. Long
may his site continue as it's an unique resource.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In article , Clive D. W. Feather
writes
Actually, I think you'll find that numbers on programme machine
controlled lines only went up to 377 - there were 8 bits for train
number.

The PM data I've seen wasn't organised by 8-bit byte, but simply had a
number of bits for each field. I thought that there were 6 minute bits,
5 hour bits, and a half-minute bit, but I could be misremembering here.

Reading through an IRSE booklet, it shows 8 bits for train number (hence
000 to 377). Some machines had a 5 bit "time to next event" field,
giving times from 0.5 to 15.5 minutes. Others had an 11 bit time field
(4 hour, 6 minute, plus half-minute). The timer device recorded time in
the form day (0 to 15), am/pm, hour (4 bits), minutes (6 bits), and
half-minute, with the last 11 bits being compared against the 11 bits on
the punched roll.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
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