"John B" wrote in message
oups.com...


Not sure which is happening here. One suggestion is to re-instate four-
tracking between Camden and Dalston, which would be sensible, and then
to dedicate one pair of tracks between Highbury and Dalston
exclusively to the ELL with the other shared between NLL and freight,
which would be barking mad, given that ELL and NLL trains will run at
the same speed in the same direction making the same stops and freight
won't. But if this did happen then you'd expect the NLL tracks to be
OHLE and the ELL tracks to be DC.


I'm just searching for evidence that the ELL will be third rail but without
success so far - however the 4 car rolling stock for ELL is certainly
announced by TfL as 'single voltage' and unless they are going to put up new
OHLE all the way to Crystal Palace and West Croydon, that will have to be
DC...

Paul S

Paul Scott wrote:

"John B" wrote in message
oups.com...


Not sure which is happening here. One suggestion is to re-instate four-
tracking between Camden and Dalston, which would be sensible, and then
to dedicate one pair of tracks between Highbury and Dalston
exclusively to the ELL with the other shared between NLL and freight,
which would be barking mad, given that ELL and NLL trains will run at
the same speed in the same direction making the same stops and freight
won't. But if this did happen then you'd expect the NLL tracks to be
OHLE and the ELL tracks to be DC.


I'm just searching for evidence that the ELL will be third rail but without
success so far - however the 4 car rolling stock for ELL is certainly
announced by TfL as 'single voltage' and unless they are going to put up new
OHLE all the way to Crystal Palace and West Croydon, that will have to be
DC...

Paul S



I shall quite from the ELLP "Rolling Stock Prequalification Briefing
Document", dated June 2005...

-----
3.2.16 - The Units must be capable of operation on the national rail
third rail
electrification system. An ability to be readily converted to 25 kV AC
overhead
operation is desirable.
-----
source: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/rail/downloads..._1600940_4.pdf


So there is proof that the East London Railway (as the Extended East
London Line is now being called by TfL) from Dalston Junction
southwards will be third rail.

On Mar 14, 3:57 pm, "John B" wrote:
In the future, the Cross-London RUS suggests converting the NLL east
of Camden Road to fully AC-electrified and leaving the WLL as-is:

Leaving the WLL in its current electrified state is a colossal
mistake. At a minimum the OHLE should be extended south to Shepherd's
Bush, and at a maximum, it should be extended south to Kensington
Olympia with the up platform road reinstated to provide four fully
bidirectional roads through the station, releasing capacity in both
directions to allow for additional passenger/freight usage (especially
if Imperial Wharf station ever opens).

Converting most of the NLL to AC would be a good idea.


The SLL will remain third-rail-only until the ex-Southern Region
converts to overhead AC, which will be never. If the GOBLIN is
electrified, it will be overhead AC.

This leaves the ELL itself. I'm fairly sure this is third-rail from
New Cross / New Cross Gate to Dalston: although I haven't read
anything explicitly stating that this is the case, none of the TfL
publicity pics have OHLE masts in them and I'd be sceptical that the
tunnels have the necessary clearance.

Beyond Dalston, there's an implication that either the ELL
Electrostars (which will continue initially to Highbury, maybe later
further on) may need to be dual-voltage with a switch-over at Dalston,
that the conversion of the NLL to OHLE east of Camden will not take
place, or that a dual-voltage section of track will be required
between Highbury and Dalston.

There is already a segment of dual-voltage track west of Dalston, so
more is not impossible (although it does give the S&T folks major
issues).


Not sure which is happening here. One suggestion is to re-instate four-
tracking between Camden and Dalston, which would be sensible, and then
to dedicate one pair of tracks between Highbury and Dalston
exclusively to the ELL with the other shared between NLL and freight,
which would be barking mad, given that ELL and NLL trains will run at
the same speed in the same direction making the same stops and freight
won't. But if this did happen then you'd expect the NLL tracks to be
OHLE and the ELL tracks to be DC.

I believe this was actually planned at one point - at Dalston, the
ELLX would be segregated from the NLL with separate platforms, and
west of the station, would run as separate paired-by-usage lines
through Highbury all the way to Caledonian Road & Barnsbury, where the
ELLX lines would connect to the NLL and then terminate in a set of
reversing sidings.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any literature saying what
the layout will be when it finally does get built, so I don't know if
this is still planned or not - the above info is from Modern Railways,
back in 2005 or 2006.

TheOneKEA wrote:

Leaving the WLL in its current electrified state is a colossal
mistake. At a minimum the OHLE should be extended south to Shepherd's
Bush, and at a maximum, it should be extended south to Kensington
Olympia with the up platform road reinstated to provide four fully
bidirectional roads through the station, releasing capacity in both
directions to allow for additional passenger/freight usage (especially
if Imperial Wharf station ever opens).

Converting most of the NLL to AC would be a good idea.

Both of those comments scream out common sense. I'm sure that I read
somewhere (a couple of years ago) that there were plans to move the AC/DC
changeover point further south (it may even have been at Shepherds Bush
station) for practical reasons, BICBW.

On Mar 14, 11:10 pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
TheOneKEA wrote:

Leaving the WLL in its current electrified state is a colossal
mistake. At a minimum the OHLE should be extended south to Shepherd's
Bush, and at a maximum, it should be extended south to Kensington
Olympia with the up platform road reinstated to provide four fully
bidirectional roads through the station, releasing capacity in both
directions to allow for additional passenger/freight usage (especially
if Imperial Wharf station ever opens).

Converting most of the NLL to AC would be a good idea.

Both of those comments scream out common sense. I'm sure that I read

Depends on the point of view. If its going to be used by freight
trains then yes , if its just EMUs probably going slowly then I doubt
it makes much difference from an electrical efficiency point of view
but from an asthetic point of view DC would be preferable. Lets face
it , OHLE is a bloody eyesore.

B2003

Jack Taylor wrote:
TheOneKEA wrote:
Leaving the WLL in its current electrified state is a colossal
mistake. At a minimum the OHLE should be extended south to Shepherd's
Bush, and at a maximum, it should be extended south to Kensington
Olympia with the up platform road reinstated to provide four fully
bidirectional roads through the station, releasing capacity in both
directions to allow for additional passenger/freight usage (especially
if Imperial Wharf station ever opens).

Converting most of the NLL to AC would be a good idea.

Both of those comments scream out common sense. I'm sure that I read
somewhere (a couple of years ago) that there were plans to move the AC/DC
changeover point further south (it may even have been at Shepherds Bush
station) for practical reasons, BICBW.

There have been plans to do this for some time, but the issue is the
Hammersmith & City line - AIUI the signalling is not immunised, so the
overhead can't be extended south until the H&C gets resignalled (which
may not be until 2014).

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

wrote:
Was just thinking about the ELL (yes I truly have no life) and got to
thinking:

When the East London line is closed this December, will the A stock be
used to reinforce any services on the Metropolitan line, or to
implement the change of the terminus from Aldgate to Barking before
the introduction of S stock? Or will they just be stored away and used
as spare sets in case of breakdown?

Edd

The A60s will be dispatched back to HMP Neasden where they will be loved
by MetroMess staff and used as normal Met line stock, as for the change
to Barking that has never been confirmed and there's absolutely no
chance of it happening in the near future, to start off with I would
have to get my tin hat out and for another there are no train ops who
are qualified over that route on the Met.

Once the ELL gets switched over the 3rd rail is St Marys curve going
to be lifted or will it be left intact just in case LU want to move
stock onto the national rail network at some point in the future?

B2003

In message .com,
Boltar writes

Once the ELL gets switched over the 3rd rail is St Marys curve going
to be lifted or will it be left intact just in case LU want to move
stock onto the national rail network at some point in the future?

It is being retained, according to alwaystouchout.com
--
Paul Terry

Sorry if I missed something, but isn't ELL already completely 3rd rail?

"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...
Once the ELL gets switched over the 3rd rail is St Marys curve going
to be lifted or will it be left intact just in case LU want to move
stock onto the national rail network at some point in the future?

B2003