In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Jack Taylor) wrote:

The suggestion was that there would not be access to the
platforms from the front of the station - perhaps things have
changed since, following consultation.

That's my concern as a cyclist. Access from Euston Road or Gray's
Inn Road to trains via a footbridge is not acceptable.

Why are you still concerned then? The information provided earlier
shows quite clearly that the 'main' access, and all the exits, for
platforms 1-7 is from the south west corner and south end of the
station, where the steps come up from the tube ticket hall, in
fact. Platform 8 is accessed on the level, from either end of the
ticket hall. The footbridge provides one way access to platforms
1-7 from the mezzanine floor (where the shops and cafes are) for
people waiting for a while for long distance trains.

It's because people keep saying it's *from* platforms 1-8 and I'm not so
sure about movements *to* platforms 1-8, especially from Gray's Inn Road
(the South East).

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(Jack Taylor) wrote:

The suggestion was that there would not be access to the
platforms from

the front of the station - perhaps things have changed since,
following consultation.

That's my concern as a cyclist. Access from Euston Road or Gray's
Inn Road to trains via a footbridge is not acceptable.

http://tinyurl.com/2csubh

Its a good read for anyone who has previously only seen the very
brief Network Rail pamphlet:

My concern is increased by reading this in the Executive Summary:

"These rail constraints and the station operational requirement to hold
departing passengers within the main concourse restricts the southern
gate line to exit only."

It looks from there as if anyone arriving by whatever means from the
Gray's Inn Road or Pentonville Road direction will have to go all the way
past platforms 1-8 to get back to any of them. I don't call that
convenient.

Gatelines sound pretty cycle-unfriendly too. They certainly are at
Liverpool Street. No mention of "cycle" in the Executive Summary or any
other part of the document referred to above I note.

All in all no consideration of passengers accompanying cycles at all.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...


Why are you still concerned then? The information provided earlier
shows quite clearly that the 'main' access, and all the exits, for
platforms 1-7 is from the south west corner and south end of the
station, where the steps come up from the tube ticket hall, in
fact. Platform 8 is accessed on the level, from either end of the
ticket hall. The footbridge provides one way access to platforms
1-7 from the mezzanine floor (where the shops and cafes are) for
people waiting for a while for long distance trains.

It's because people keep saying it's *from* platforms 1-8 and I'm not so
sure about movements *to* platforms 1-8, especially from Gray's Inn Road
(the South East).

The entrance flows are shown on the drawing on page 9 of:

http://tinyurl.com/2csubh

so I assume you're going to have to cross the existing forecourt and come in
through the new main southern entrance, between the existing station and the
Great Northern Hotel. As someone else has said though, aren't the services
moving to St Pancras Midland Road eventually? I really can't think of
anything helpful to say about taking a bike through a gateline, but I'm sure
cyclists will have to get more used to them, they're installing a lot more
than they're removing...

Paul

Paul Scott wrote:

so I assume you're going to have to cross the existing forecourt and
come in through the new main southern entrance, between the existing
station and the Great Northern Hotel. As someone else has said
though, aren't the services moving to St Pancras Midland Road
eventually? I really can't think of anything helpful to say about
taking a bike through a gateline, but I'm sure cyclists will have to
get more used to them, they're installing a lot more than they're
removing...

We have them at Aylesbury and at Marylebone - I never have any problems at
all with them. However, Colin is understandably concerned if all access to
KX is intended to be via the new feeder footbridge from the west side
concourse.

In article , Roland Perry
writes
I can't see why taking people a hundred yards further north to start
with helps very much.
For the Circle, it won't.
Won't help very much, presumably.

Yes, that's what I meant.

The main exit from the Northern Line will be from the western end via
stairs and then two flights of escalators to the Northern Ticket Hall.
The horizontal reach of these escalators will cover much of the
distance involved (at present, from the Northern Line you follow a
hairpin to end up almost where you started).
Trying to visualise this. At the moment there's one long escalator
down, then you turn back for a short one to platform level.

Right.

Where about on the train is that (let's say you are catching one to
London Bridge).

The bottom of the short escalator is somewhat east of the front of the
(southbound) train. The top of the long escalator is about 20m west of
there. In fact, this escalator is diagonally across the Northern Line so
that, to a first approximation, it lies over the rear car of a
northbound train standing in the platform.

If that's the rear of the train, then the front will indeed be closer
to Euston with the potential of a short-cut from the front of the train
to the northern ticket hall.

You seem to be back to front. The new stairway up to the new escalators
will start somewhere about carriage 5 of a southbound train. At surface
level it's just south of the Great Northern Hotel.

For the Piccadilly Line there will be a second set of escalators,
starting at the north end of the platforms;
[...]
Sounds like quite a dog-leg to get back to platforms 1-8.

To platform 1, perhaps (the Piccadilly platforms are roughly under
platforms 2 and 4), but it'll bring you out in the new main line ticket
hall.

Might be a quicker route to St Pancras, though. Are there plans to have
tunnels from the Northern Ticket hall to inside the St Pancras complex

I'm afraid I don't know.

That leaves only the Victoria Line exiting through the existing
concourse.
Are they proposing to close the Picc/Northern escalator shaft to the
existing concourse?

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

As far as I know, none of the existing exits will close. "second set of
escalators" above meant a second set for use by Piccadilly Line
passengers. The existing set will remain. And my comment about the
Victoria Line could perhaps have been better phrased. The existing
escalators to the existing concourse will remain, or passengers can use
the part of the existing Thameslink tunnel that runs from the Victoria
Line to the Piccadilly Line, and then the new passageway from the latter
to the Northern Ticket Hall.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article .com, TimB
writes
Every train does have a designated platform.
Not in my experience

Every train at King's Cross has a booked and timetabled platform. The
signallers will try to get that train into that platform, but when
things are messed up it's not always possible.

Hull Trains have so few services that it wouldn't be a good use of space.
I didn't mean they should be the only TOC on that platform, just that
their trains should always be on the same platform

But adding that constraint makes planning the rest of the timetable more
difficult.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...

Why are you still concerned then? The information provided
earlier shows quite clearly that the 'main' access, and all the
exits, for platforms 1-7 is from the south west corner and south
end of the station, where the steps come up from the tube ticket
hall, in fact. Platform 8 is accessed on the level, from either
end of the ticket hall. The footbridge provides one way access to
platforms 1-7 from the mezzanine floor (where the shops and cafes
are) for people waiting for a while for long distance trains.

It's because people keep saying it's *from* platforms 1-8 and I'm
not so sure about movements *to* platforms 1-8, especially from
Gray's Inn Road (the South East).

The entrance flows are shown on the drawing on page 9 of:

http://tinyurl.com/2csubh

so I assume you're going to have to cross the existing forecourt
and come in through the new main southern entrance, between the
existing station and the Great Northern Hotel. As someone else has
said though, aren't the services moving to St Pancras Midland Road
eventually? I really can't think of anything helpful to say about
taking a bike through a gateline, but I'm sure cyclists will have
to get more used to them, they're installing a lot more than
they're removing...

Gatelines are a right pain because you can't get through the normal gates
with a bike. You have to use a wide gate and to use that you have to find
a member of staff who can be arsed to serve customers and open it.

It looks like everyone will have to put up with a long detour from the
South East to get to the lower numbered platforms. It's not as if GNER
want gates anyway, is it? They're not exactly luggage-friendly either.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Why are you still concerned then? The information provided earlier shows
quite clearly that the 'main' access, and all the exits, for platforms 1-7
is from the south west corner and south end of the station, where the steps
come up from the tube ticket hall, in fact.[....]

Paul

Although the current passageway from the tube ticket hall that rises
in the station concourse is to be closed, according to the plans at
http://www.tinyurl.com/35bocd (very detailed, so very large file!),
and replaced by a staircase coming off the new passage connecting the
tube ticket hall to the northern ticket hall. Good job too - the
current passage is the one bit of kxsp underground station that is
still in an awful state.

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Gatelines are a right pain because you can't get through the normal
gates with a bike. You have to use a wide gate and to use that you
have to find a member of staff who can be arsed to serve customers
and open it.

Not if they use the same style of wide gate that is installed at Chiltern
stations. They are operated by ticket, the same as the normal gates. They
have different style of paddle fitted, rather than the large flat panel they
have a tubular construction in place.

In message , at 18:29:30 on Fri, 23
Mar 2007, Clive D. W. Feather remarked:

Every train at King's Cross has a booked and timetabled platform.

Do they still have that station announcer who yells at people (to go
back to the concourse) who "guess" the platform before it's published?
--
Roland Perry