In article . com,
(TimB) wrote:

On Mar 19, 12:30 pm, Roland Perry wrote:

Surely better to close the suburban platforms altogether at
weekends, and give people a shorter walk.

One thing that amazes me is that, whereas the Germans et al allocate
platform numbers for the whole year, in Britain we make it up day by
day. It would be great in the evenings to know that Cambridge fasts
are always on say pl. 8, Peterboroughs on 7 - and why Hull Trains
can't have a designated platform (like say Heathrow Express) I don't
know.

Having the 19:15 depart from an even-numbered platform again would be
nice. At present it goes from 7 and everyone with a bike (it's the first
train after the peak which allows bikes on) has to move it from one side
to the other or else they block the doors at Letchworth.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at 14:52:06
on Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Jack Taylor remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:

Depends where you are starting from. Surely most of the
passengers arrive either by road at the front of the station, or
by tube (which is also at the front of the station). The only
direction that the suburban platforms are closer is St Pancras.

Yes - *currently*. We are talking about the future, when the new
main concourse is built between the GN hotel and the suburban
platforms, the new LUL northern concourse is open, adjacent to it,
and the current "temporary" mess at the front of KX has been
demolished and landscaped. The main route then will be through the
new LUL concourse (of from adjacent taxi points) into the new
mainline concourse.

I am sceptical about this new concourse. The Circle line is under
the main road, so all you are altering is where people climb up to
the surface. I can't see why taking people a hundred yards further
north to start with helps very much.

Similarly, the escalators for the deep tube lines stretch pretty
much parallel to the main road, from a point at the front of the
station towards KX Thameslink, and the tube platforms "point" that
way too. Taking people from the deep tube lines via this new
concourse is also a long way round.

Very little traffic will use the existing
entrance/exit at the front of the station, mainly foot passengers
exiting to Euston Road/Pentonville Road/Grays Inn Road or those
using that entrance to LUL. All travellers arriving at King's Cross
will be funneled through the new west side entrance, so the suburban
platforms (the only ones for which access will be "on the level"
from the new ticket office) will actually be far more accessible
than the mainline platforms, for which it will be necessary to go
up to the waiting area on the first floor, then across the new
footbridge in the centre of the station and down to platform
level using either escalators or lifts.

What a nightmare! Having used the station and studied the plans in
passing, none of that was particularly obvious.

Another factor in your favour is that the new Northern underground ticket
hall will only be one of three. The others are open now and will remain
in place.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , Roland Perry
writes
I am sceptical about this new concourse. The Circle line is under the
main road, so all you are altering is where people climb up to the
surface. I can't see why taking people a hundred yards further north to
start with helps very much.

For the Circle, it won't.

Similarly, the escalators for the deep tube lines stretch pretty much
parallel to the main road, from a point at the front of the station
towards KX Thameslink, and the tube platforms "point" that way too.
Taking people from the deep tube lines via this new concourse is also a
long way round.

Not so.

The main exit from the Northern Line will be from the western end via
stairs and then two flights of escalators to the Northern Ticket Hall.
The horizontal reach of these escalators will cover much of the distance
involved (at present, from the Northern Line you follow a hairpin to end
up almost where you started).

For the Piccadilly Line there will be a second set of escalators,
starting at the north end of the platforms; these will connect into an
extension of the Thameslink access tunnel which will lead to the
midpoint of the two flights of escalators from the Northern Line. This
tunnel will *roughly* follow the route of the present King's Cross
footbridge from platform 3/4 to the present FCC ticket office. It will
therefore be no longer - and far more convenient - than the present
exit.

That leaves only the Victoria Line exiting through the existing
concourse.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article . com, TimB
writes
One thing that amazes me is that, whereas the Germans et al allocate
platform numbers for the whole year, in Britain we make it up day by
day. It would be great in the evenings to know that Cambridge fasts
are always on say pl. 8, Peterboroughs on 7 - and why Hull Trains
can't have a designated platform (like say Heathrow Express) I don't
know.

Every train does have a designated platform. It's just that the crowded
working at KX makes it hard to dedicate a platform to each service; it's
not compatible with getting everything in and out without conflict. And
Hull Trains have so few services that it wouldn't be a good use of
space.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On Mar 20, 11:20 am, "Clive D. W. Feather" c...@on-the-
train.demon.co.uk wrote:

Every train does have a designated platform.
Not in my experience

Hull Trains have so few services that it wouldn't be a good use of space.
I didn't mean they should be the only TOC on that platform, just that
their trains should always be on the same platform - which would help
loading supplies as well as helping passengers.

In message , at 11:08:15 on Tue, 20
Mar 2007, Clive D. W. Feather remarked:

I am sceptical about this new concourse. The Circle line is under the
main road, so all you are altering is where people climb up to the
surface. I can't see why taking people a hundred yards further north
to start with helps very much.

For the Circle, it won't.

Won't help very much, presumably.

Similarly, the escalators for the deep tube lines stretch pretty much
parallel to the main road, from a point at the front of the station
towards KX Thameslink, and the tube platforms "point" that way too.
Taking people from the deep tube lines via this new concourse is also
a long way round.

Not so.

The main exit from the Northern Line will be from the western end via
stairs and then two flights of escalators to the Northern Ticket Hall.
The horizontal reach of these escalators will cover much of the
distance involved (at present, from the Northern Line you follow a
hairpin to end up almost where you started).

Trying to visualise this. At the moment there's one long escalator down,
then you turn back for a short one to platform level. Where about on the
train is that (let's say you are catching one to London Bridge). If
that's the rear of the train, then the front will indeed be closer to
Euston with the potential of a short-cut from the front of the train to
the northern ticket hall.

For the Piccadilly Line there will be a second set of escalators,
starting at the north end of the platforms; these will connect into an
extension of the Thameslink access tunnel which will lead to the
midpoint of the two flights of escalators from the Northern Line. This
tunnel will *roughly* follow the route of the present King's Cross
footbridge from platform 3/4 to the present FCC ticket office. It will
therefore be no longer - and far more convenient - than the present exit.

Sounds like quite a dog-leg to get back to platforms 1-8. Might be a
quicker route to St Pancras, though. Are there plans to have tunnels
from the Northern Ticket hall to inside the St Pancras complex - perhaps
that's what those escalators are that emerge just inside the current
main entrance. Still quite a way from the MML platforms

That leaves only the Victoria Line exiting through the existing
concourse.

Are they proposing to close the Picc/Northern escalator shaft to the
existing concourse?
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:15:00 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote:

TimB wrote:

One thing that amazes me is that, whereas the Germans et al allocate
platform numbers for the whole year, in Britain we make it up day by
day.

It's because the Germans are so terrified of a train being late that they
allocate about 5 minutes of what we call "Charter Time" between every single
pair of stations.


Nonsense!

DB timekeeping these days is at least as bad as various TOCs here, and
has been since reunification. Admittedly, it was generally pretty good
up to that point.


--
What New Labour are in favour of is commerce. Privatise the economy, nationalise the people.

On Mar 20, 2:37 pm, Mike Roebuck wrote:

It's because the Germans are so terrified of a train being late that they
allocate about 5 minutes of what we call "Charter Time" between every single
pair of stations.

Nonsense!

DB timekeeping these days is at least as bad as various TOCs here, and
has been since reunification. Admittedly, it was generally pretty good
up to that point.

I agree DB timekeeping isn't much better than ours now (and we have
huge amounts of padding in timetables too), but they do generally keep
to the allocated platform - or there's quite a commotion when they
don't!
Tim

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

Are there plans to have tunnels
from the Northern Ticket hall to inside the St Pancras complex - perhaps
that's what those escalators are that emerge just inside the current main
entrance. Still quite a way from the MML platforms


Those escalators are definitely part of the future link to the northern
ticket hall, and labelled 'London Underground entrance from 2010' on the
plan I posted a link to elsewhere. If the underground passageway went any
further to the MML side of the station, people heading for the Kent side
would have to double back, and more importantly, MML passengers would miss
the shopping complex...

Paul

In message , at 15:59:55 on
Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Paul Scott remarked:
If the underground passageway went any further to the MML side of the
station, people heading for the Kent side would have to double back,
and more importantly, MML passengers would miss the shopping complex...

I'm rather assuming the tacky chipboard-walled shops in the ground floor
passageway (and the portakabin First Class Lounge) will be swept away
once the station gets a bit closer to completion. And there aren't any
shops between there and the MML buffers (apart from a couple of equally
temporary looking stalls selling warmed up cornish pasties etc).

But I agree that you don't want to dog-leg the Kent domestic passengers.

The main criticism is how far away the MML platforms are from the rest
of the complex.
--
Roland Perry