In message , at 11:20:35 on
Wed, 21 Mar 2007, Walter Mann remarked:
Of course Tried again just now, test journey as follows:

Luton Airport Parkway 10:35 no platform

To be honest, how often is knowing the platform numbers any use at all for a
customer?

In this case we were wanting to confirm or deny a same-platform change
for an elderly passenger wanting to change from Thameslink to MML.
Although (or perhaps because) it has lots of lifts and escalators, LAP
is not very user-friendly if you are trying to dash from a fast line
platform to a slow line one.
--
Roland Perry

Am Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:20:35 UTC, schrieb "Walter Mann"
auf uk.railway :

To be honest, how often is knowing the platform numbers any use at all for a
customer? I can't conceive of *not* confirming the platform from screens at
the time of departure.

I just have to check the sign at the relevant platform. I'm used to
that at German train stations.

Yours,
L.W.

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry wrote:

Depends where you are starting from. Surely most of the passengers
arrive either by road at the front of the station, or by tube (which
is also at the front of the station). The only direction that the
suburban platforms are closer is St Pancras.

Yes - *currently*. We are talking about the future, when the new main
concourse is built between the GN hotel and the suburban platforms, the
new LUL northern concourse is open, adjacent to it, and the current
"temporary" mess at the front of KX has been demolished and landscaped.
The main route then will be through the new LUL concourse (of from
adjacent taxi points) into the new mainline concourse. Very little traffic
will use the existing entrance/exit at the front of the station, mainly
foot passengers exiting to Euston Road/Pentonville Road/Grays Inn Road or
those using that entrance to LUL. All travellers arriving at King's Cross
will be funneled through the new west side entrance, so the suburban
platforms (the only ones for which access will be "on the level" from the
new ticket office) will actually be far more accessible than the mainline
platforms, for which it will be necessary to go up to the waiting area on
the first floor, then across the new footbridge in the centre of the
station and down to platform level using either escalators or lifts.

I don't think you've got this right Jack; in the LB Camden planning info,
there is a document that discusses all the details of passenger movement.
It shows quite clearly that the overbridge will be a one way route onto the
platforms for departures, but that the main passenger flows will be to/from
the south (existing) end of the platforms, and mostly onto the forecourt:

http://tinyurl.com/2csubh

Its a good read for anyone who has previously only seen the very brief
Network Rail pamphlet:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/documen...ossLeaflet.pdf

Paul

Paul Scott wrote:

I don't think you've got this right Jack; in the LB Camden planning
info, there is a document that discusses all the details of passenger
movement. It shows quite clearly that the overbridge will be a one
way route onto the platforms for departures, but that the main
passenger flows will be to/from the south (existing) end of the
platforms, and mostly onto the forecourt:

Apologies if I was unclear. My understanding was based upon articles in the
transport magazines, I hadn't actually seen that very interesting document
that you link to, and was that all departures will take passengers into the
station through the new west side ticket hall, feeding them to the first
floor waiting area and then across the new (as you say, one way) centre
footbridge and then down to the platforms by lift or escalator. Following
demolition of the current 'temporary' mess at the front of the station to
reveal Cubitt's facade, I was under the impression that this would be the
main point of exit from the station for all passenger arrivals (apart from
those, I assume crossing to St. Pancras domestic platforms). The suggestion
was that there would not be access to the platforms from the front of the
station - perhaps things have changed since, following consultation.

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Jack Taylor) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:

Depends where you are starting from. Surely most of the passengers
arrive either by road at the front of the station, or by tube
(which is also at the front of the station). The only direction
that the suburban platforms are closer is St Pancras.

Yes - *currently*. We are talking about the future, when the new
main concourse is built between the GN hotel and the suburban
platforms, the new LUL northern concourse is open,
What about cyclists?! This is what I've been asking about and haven't
been getting intelligent answers.


Its all covered in the weeds of the planning documents on LB Camden's
website - but there is no single summary I can find. Various drawings show
bike storage, the largest is at the north end of platform 8, for about 84
'bike stores', some at the station (south) front, and various indications in
the text that the main Camden cycle routes are accessible from between KX
and St Pancras, and capacity is doubling from the current level, which is in
line with research so far. I'm also guessing that cycle capacity in the
design allows for the eventual shift of services to the Thameslink side of
St Pancras, may be there is provision in their project too...

Paul

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
...
John B wrote:

AIUI, all FCC trains that terminate in King's Cross during weekday
daytime hours will run through the Thameslink tunnels after the
project, leaving KX for GNER, Hull and Grand Central services only.

I'm not sure what will happen at weekends and evenings (when FCC local
services currently also run into KX instead of Moorgate).

Presumably there will be capacity in the current suburban trainshed, once
vacated by outer suburban services.

Having just slogged through all the planning documentation for the new KX
ticket hall, its all been designed for 12 tph suburban and 7 tph long
distance. I can't believe they are designing KX on the basis that these 12
services will disappear as soon as Thameslink is completed, so are these
suburban services going to be additional, if all current services are due to
go down the Thameslink route when its finished?

Paul

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
...
Paul Scott wrote:

I don't think you've got this right Jack; in the LB Camden planning
info, there is a document that discusses all the details of passenger
movement. It shows quite clearly that the overbridge will be a one
way route onto the platforms for departures, but that the main
passenger flows will be to/from the south (existing) end of the
platforms, and mostly onto the forecourt:

Apologies if I was unclear. My understanding was based upon articles in
the transport magazines, I hadn't actually seen that very interesting
document that you link to, and was that all departures will take
passengers into the station through the new west side ticket hall, feeding
them to the first floor waiting area and then across the new (as you say,
one way) centre footbridge and then down to the platforms by lift or
escalator. Following demolition of the current 'temporary' mess at the
front of the station to reveal Cubitt's facade, I was under the impression
that this would be the main point of exit from the station for all
passenger arrivals (apart from those, I assume crossing to St. Pancras
domestic platforms). The suggestion was that there would not be access to
the platforms from the front of the station - perhaps things have changed
since, following consultation.

No apology needed - I think info has been very sketchy up to now,
particularly Network Rail's site has lacked any real detail. There is also a
Dec 2006 revision of that document on the Camden planning site if you are
interested, the drawing text is a lot clearer.

Paul

"Paul Scott" wrote

Having just slogged through all the planning documentation for the new KX
ticket hall, its all been designed for 12 tph suburban and 7 tph long
distance. I can't believe they are designing KX on the basis that these
12
services will disappear as soon as Thameslink is completed, so are these
suburban services going to be additional, if all current services are due
to
go down the Thameslink route when its finished?

In the morning peak hour, FCC run 15 tph from the Midland line, and around
12 tph from the GN line into Kings Cross. The Thameslink project will allow
24 tph to run through Central london, so if existing frequencies are only
maintained, not enhanced, some trains will still need to terminate at Kings
Cross.

Peter

Paul Scott wrote:

Its all covered in the weeds of the planning documents on LB Camden's
website - but there is no single summary I can find. Various
drawings show bike storage, the largest is at the north end of
platform 8, for about 84 'bike stores', some at the station (south)
front, and various indications in the text that the main Camden cycle
routes are accessible from between KX and St Pancras, and capacity is
doubling from the current level, which is in line with research so
far. I'm also guessing that cycle capacity in the design allows for
the eventual shift of services to the Thameslink side of St Pancras,
may be there is provision in their project too...

That would suit me just fine - then I can poddle off down Crowndale Road and
through Regent's Park far easier than at present! ;-)

(x-posting to uk-railway restored - part of the thread seems to have
become disconnected)

On Mar 21, 3:45 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Jack Taylor" wrote in message

...

John B wrote:

AIUI, all FCC trains that terminate in King's Cross during weekday
daytime hours will run through the Thameslink tunnels after the
project, leaving KX for GNER, Hull and Grand Central services only.

I'm not sure what will happen at weekends and evenings (when FCC local
services currently also run into KX instead of Moorgate).

Presumably there will be capacity in the current suburban trainshed, once
vacated by outer suburban services.

Having just slogged through all the planning documentation for the new KX
ticket hall, its all been designed for 12 tph suburban and 7 tph long
distance. I can't believe they are designing KX on the basis that these 12
services will disappear as soon as Thameslink is completed, so are these
suburban services going to be additional, if all current services are due to
go down the Thameslink route when its finished?

Well, the *ticket hall* can sell tickets for trains in the main shed
or Thameslink, doesn't matter which, I assume.