Stephen Firth ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Years ago I did a tour of the Sahara

No, you didn't.
Liar! Hypocrite! Frivolously hyper-pot-kettle!

"Conor" wrote in message
.. .
In article , ian henden
says...

Shame it's wrong. Having actually driven a 15ft 9in high trailer quite
a lot, it is no worse than a normal height one.

Maybe, but a DD bus in high sidewinds, at motorway speed, is hairy.

Only to those with no experience of driving them.

'Spose 30+ years isn't enough? Initially Peterborough - Huntingdon -
Cambridge? Fen land, where wind whips striaght in from the Urals across the
North Sea and nothing much to abate it across East Anglia?

An artic rig will have

a) more axles (so rather more weight low down) and

b) they will be distributed over a greater length of the vehicle (which
must contribute to directional stability) and

c) the load distribution of a truck is different. In a bus, half loaded,
then that half load will usually go and sit upstairs.... leaving the
bottom
deck empty save for a few grannies....

And a bus has ballast weights.....

None that I am aware of, and I've seen a fair few buses and coaches being
broken up, never seen anything that might be called a "ballast weight".

Buses are subject to a "tilt" test, the angle of dangle being not so severe
for a DD as it is for a SD, but I can't remember off-hand what the angles
actually are. But we are not talking about being blown *over* .... the
problem is being blown *off-course*. With the smaller wheelbase of a bus,
that is a bigger problem than with a lorry's longer wheelbase. The problem
is also magnified with increased speed.

The reasons for a buses smaller wheelbase, compared with its length, are to
do with: having a wide door at the absolute front of the vehicle so the
driver can collect fares; that decides the location of the front axle; also,
a smaller wheelbase gives more manoeverability; rear overhang is a
"balancing" act with the front, and somewhere to put the engine. If the
engine were under the centre floor (an ideal location for stability, if not
servicing access), then the lower deck aisle would be too high (look at
1960s single deck Bristol MW, for example.) Can't get wheelchairs and
buggies up steps.

Biggest masses must be chassis and engine/gearbox, and the latter is usually
right at the back, 5 ft or so aft of the rear wheels - not the ideal
location for directional stability, but easy to get at when Things Go Wrong.
There are other, good, reasons for having the engine there.... out of the
way of passenger area, for a start. If the PTB could get away with having
engines at the front still, next to the driver, then we would still all be
using manual gearboxes. It's only the remote location of the engine that
prompted first, semi-automatics, and latterly, fullly automatic gearboxes.
Saves having complicated linkages under the floor (where ther isn't much
clearance anyway). (DAF BOVA has rear engine, and manual gearbox.... many
points of potential linkage wear twixt gearlever and gearbox... :0( ... try
driving a worn one, where you haven't a clue WHAT gear you might be in until
you try it!! )

Coming off M27 onto M275, where the road is high above other roads and the
foothills of Mount Solent, the wind has been whipping in over the harbour
recently. OK at reduced speeds, but, above 40 mph, it most certainly does
start to get hairy. The timetable demands 55mph plus for this ..... the
bus runs late instead, due to excessive wind conditions

Also a head wind can easily knock 10 mph off the top speed of 60 and a
tad mph (same as going up shallow hills on the motorway). (For some
reason, going the other way, you can't seem to acquire an *extra* 10 mph)...
You must have noticed some buses can overtake your lorry on the flat, but
then you can overtake them on an uphill?

One of Stagecoaches DDs got blown off the A10 near Streatham a few weeks ago
in similar circumstances. Made the national papers, AND the Sun. Buses don't
get blown *over* - just blown to one side or the other.... an involuntary
lane change, which one can cope with if there IS an empty lane to the
side... but not so much fun when there is only a drainage ditch!

Whilst I am quite happy to accept that you know a fair bit about driving an
artic, I am not so sure that you have had a lot of experience driving buses.
There are some differences, not all of which might be obvious.


---
IanH

In message , ian henden
writes
If the
engine were under the centre floor (an ideal location for stability, if not
servicing access), then the lower deck aisle would be too high (look at
1960s single deck Bristol MW, for example.) Can't get wheelchairs and
buggies up steps.
I've never heard of an MV, but in the mix of buses we had, our mainstay
was the Bristol/Lodeka double-deckers (crash boxes) and the Bristol RE
single-deckers (pre selector boxes). Weren't the latter mid-engined?
The VRs and the Leyland Nationals were rear-engined but the latter were
the only ones on the fleet with power steering.
--
Clive.

Adrian wrote:

Stephen Firth ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Years ago I did a tour of the Sahara

No, you didn't.

Well not all of it, no. That would have been bloody silly. But I saw
enough of it to know (a) it's big and (b) I don't want to go back, ever.

Liar! Hypocrite! Frivolously hyper-pot-kettle!

I flew there but no motorbikes were used.

In article , ian henden
says...
......

None that I am aware of, and I've seen a fair few buses and coaches being
broken up, never seen anything that might be called a "ballast weight".

My mistake. I thought I'd read somewhere that they did.


Whilst I am quite happy to accept that you know a fair bit about driving an
artic, I am not so sure that you have had a lot of experience driving buses.
There are some differences, not all of which might be obvious.

Indeed. Thanks for the explanations.


--
Conor

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak.........

"Clive." wrote in message
...
In message , ian henden
writes
If the
engine were under the centre floor (an ideal location for stability, if
not
servicing access), then the lower deck aisle would be too high (look at
1960s single deck Bristol MW, for example.) Can't get wheelchairs and
buggies up steps.
I've never heard of an MV,

It's an MW.... see http://classicbristolbuses.thornet.co.uk/mw.htm


but in the mix of buses we had, our mainstay
was the Bristol/Lodeka double-deckers (crash boxes) and the Bristol RE
single-deckers (pre selector boxes)

Semi automatic
.. Weren't the latter mid-engined?

No... rear engined (see http://classicbristolbuses.thornet.co.uk/re.htm )
not really low floor, though

The VRs and the Leyland Nationals were rear-engined but the latter were
the only ones on the fleet with power steering.
--
Clive.

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:23:51 +0000, (Stephen
Firth) wrote:

Das Rollende Hotel :

http://www.pbase.com/bmcmorrow/image/71691822

Years ago I did a tour of the Sahara, and we encountered one of these
buses. We were touring in a series of Citroen CXs with some Peugeot 305s
and a couple of Land Rovers. One of the guides said that two years
before - that would be around 1976 I think - he had found one of these
buses with everyone aboard dead. They had gone to sleep in the "coffins"
provided and had (presumably) slept late into the day. The heat of the
sun had baked them in the beds.

If they looked an odd colour to a layman it could have been because of
CO poisoning. If they'd subsequently been exposed to the desert heat
the results wouldn't bear thinking about.

Most likely in the freezing cold night either the heating system was
faulty and working very hard, or somebody jury-rigged some heating
without ensuring adequate ventilation.

A couple on my son's course at uni were poisoned with CO by a faulty
gas heater, they were rescued just too late to recover. One died
within the day the other spent 4 days foaming at the mouth.

I have no idea why they did not wake,
although the contrast between the freezing temperatures of night and the
heat of the day may have been a factor.

H2S can have a similar effect, IIRC a family was gassed on the Swansea
to Cork ferrry when heavy seas swilled all the water out of the U bend
of their toilet and admitted H2S from the sewage holding tank to their
cabin. Seemingly you stop smelling it well before you succumb.

Looking at that picture of the dormitory van it seems to have only
windows for the sleeping capsules, but I bet it had toilets in there,
they sleep up to 40, that's a lot of "Jobby" after a week on the
trail, and the guides wouldn't want them wandering about the desert at
4-00am trying to get to the toilets in the tractor unit ....

Who knows ?

DG

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:40:53 -0000, "Peter Corser"
wrote:

"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message
...

Now quite the same thing, but there are trains on the Continent with seats
on three levels (downstairs, upstairs, and a middle level at the ends over
the wheels), and I suppose a bus could be arranged in a similar manner if
someone thought of a reason to bother.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Arthur

The trains you are thinking of are common in Europe, USA, Canada, China (I
think), at least.

They are, however, only double deckers in practice. The middle levels are
only over the wheels and are usually used for entrance/exit and standing
customers only (there may be tip up emergency seats in some instances),
there is still only room for two sets of seated passengers even within other
countries extended loading gauges.


I would never consider them as triple deckers really, but if use of
the middle level is a criterion, Sydney suburbans have longitudinal
seats between the doors and the car ends, while the interurbans have
the doors nearer the ends and normal seats between there and the
stairs.

On 20 Mar 2007 05:34:07 -0700, "TimB" wrote:


Normally in Europe I think the doors are on the lower level - the
space above the wheels is seating and a sort of landing halfway up the
stairs.

Not NS, not RER

In message , ian henden
writes

"Clive." wrote in message
...
In message , ian henden
writes
If the
engine were under the centre floor (an ideal location for stability, if
not
servicing access), then the lower deck aisle would be too high (look at
1960s single deck Bristol MW, for example.) Can't get wheelchairs and
buggies up steps.
I've never heard of an MV,
It's an MW.... see http://classicbristolbuses.thornet.co.uk/mw.htm
I recognise it, we used to call then conker-boxes because the cab was
boxed in. They had a funny gearbox. The normal H but fifth was only
accessible from forth being right (towards the driver) then forward,
but in the mix of buses we had, our mainstay
was the Bristol/Lodeka double-deckers (crash boxes) and the Bristol RE
single-deckers (pre selector boxes)
Semi automatic
I don't know what you call semi automatic, but the gears were what I've
always called pre-selector, I drove enough of them.
. Weren't the latter mid-engined?
No... rear engined (see http://classicbristolbuses.thornet.co.uk/re.htm )
not really low floor, though
I didn't know that, but I suppose most drivers wouldn't.

--
Clive.