http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/cont...A45%3A20%3A777

Just saw this story which talks about TfL asking potential bidders for
the operation of the North London Line to consider the possibility of
removing guards from this line (ie running driver-only trains) -
apparently there are more than 100 of them.

In almost 2 years of twice daily usage and several years of less
frequent usage before that, I think I can count on one hand the number
of times I have seen a guard either on the train or accompanying the
driver in his carriage. Are there really more than 100 guards on this
line?

On 18 Apr, 12:33, whos2091 wrote:
In almost 2 years of twice daily usage and several years of less
frequent usage before that, I think I can count on one hand the number
of times I have seen a guard either on the train or accompanying the
driver in his carriage. Are there really more than 100 guards on this
line?

Don't know about the numbers, but all NLL service do indeed carry a
guard. Euston - Watford Junction is DOO, though.

On 18 Apr 2007 04:33:37 -0700, whos2091
wrote:

http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/cont...A45%3A20%3A777

Just saw this story which talks about TfL asking potential bidders for
the operation of the North London Line to consider the possibility of
removing guards from this line (ie running driver-only trains) -
apparently there are more than 100 of them.

In almost 2 years of twice daily usage and several years of less
frequent usage before that, I think I can count on one hand the number
of times I have seen a guard either on the train or accompanying the
driver in his carriage. Are there really more than 100 guards on this
line?

Haven't you heard the ding-ding signal to start?

whos2091 wrote:
http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/cont...A45%3A20%3A777

Just saw this story which talks about TfL asking potential bidders for
the operation of the North London Line to consider the possibility of
removing guards from this line (ie running driver-only trains) -
apparently there are more than 100 of them.

In almost 2 years of twice daily usage and several years of less
frequent usage before that, I think I can count on one hand the number
of times I have seen a guard either on the train or accompanying the
driver in his carriage. Are there really more than 100 guards on this
line?

There is a guard on every NLL train, usually in the rear cab.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:05:19 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

There is a guard on every NLL train, usually in the rear cab.

I'll admit I'm surprised as well. I thought all of Silverlink Metro
was DOO.

Given that all they seem to do is a Merseyrail-style doors-ding-ding,
perhaps they would be better with driver-controlled doors and a few
patrolling revenue/security teams made up of the old guards.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:

Given that all they seem to do is a Merseyrail-style doors-ding-ding,
perhaps they would be better with driver-controlled doors and a few
patrolling revenue/security teams made up of the old guards.

Yeah...But to do *that*, they'd actually need to be able to get
*through* the trains But that's a matter for another thread.

*ponders* In fact, aren't Silverlink one of the few TOCs that still
employ Guards on "inner suburban" type duties? (I believe SWT do as
well, but that's about it)

Cheers,

Barry

On 18 Apr 2007 04:33:37 -0700, whos2091 wrote:

Just saw this story which talks about TfL asking potential bidders for
the operation of the North London Line to consider the possibility of
removing guards from this line (ie running driver-only trains) -
apparently there are more than 100 of them.

In almost 2 years of twice daily usage and several years of less
frequent usage before that, I think I can count on one hand the number
of times I have seen a guard either on the train or accompanying the
driver in his carriage. Are there really more than 100 guards on this
line?

There are probably 20 or so NLL/WLL/Goblin trains in service at any
one time. So assuming 3 shifts per train per day, that's around 420
shifts per week that need to be covered. Taking into account holidays,
sickness, etc (and anything I haven't thought of), 100+ guards doesn't
seem an unreasonable figure.

Of course TfL should abolish Guards on the NLL, who contribute nothing
to passenger safety and stay safely locked in their cabs whilst
travelling through the NLL's many areas of "bandit country". BUT they
should be replaced by permanent in-car roving security/revenue
presence and that's unlikely to happen. It's still not clear just how
gated/staffed some of the smaller NLL stations will be and, without
permanently-staffed gatelines at all stations the rabble are still
going to have unfettered access as at present.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:10:09 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:

*ponders* In fact, aren't Silverlink one of the few TOCs that still
employ Guards on "inner suburban" type duties? (I believe SWT do as
well, but that's about it)

Merseyrail, as noted. However, one suspects the reasoning behind this
is the good old Merseyside industrial relations problem; my view is
that it would be sensible to go DOO and with the money saved go over
to a higher frequency based on a 10-minute rather than 15-minute
pattern.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 19 Apr, 17:52, wrote:
Of course TfL should abolish Guards on the NLL, who contribute nothing
to passenger safety and stay safely locked in their cabs whilst
travelling through the NLL's many areas of "bandit country". BUT they
should be replaced by permanent in-car roving security/revenue
presence and that's unlikely to happen. It's still not clear just how
gated/staffed some of the smaller NLL stations will be and, without
permanently-staffed gatelines at all stations the rabble are still
going to have unfettered access as at present.

Cheers Bowroa,

Blad you want TFL to get rid of my job!!!! Does that mean you will be
able to look after me and my wife, pay our rent, pay for our holidays,
pay all our bills, pay for my Arsenal season ticket, For the next 22
that i can still work?

I wonder bowroa do you contribute anything to society? Because if you
did you would'nt make a remark like the one above. If you know how bad
it is on the NLL then you would know that we dont just sit in the
cabs. I wish that is all i ever did was sit in the cabs doing nothing,
however thats far from the truth. Its rather strange that people say i
didnt know that Guards were employed on the trains. Yet when the
service is up the swanny every one seems to know where to go to vent
their anger.

It would appear that people have been lead up the garden path by
Railway Managers wanting to change the name of the grade Guard to any
other word apart from Guard, like 'Conductor' If i wanted to be a
Conductor i would have joined London Transport Buses and been a Bus
Conductor, however if i did that i would already be out of a job.

I am also glad that Neil Williams thinks its also a good idea for me
to out of a job, however not even he can be that naive that any money
saved will go into having a 10 minute train service. And that is if
their is any saved, i mean up to 100 Railway Guards being put on the
DOLE means that where money is saved in one place it increases
elsewhere and will put extra burden on the government who will hav e
to pay for us being on the dole.

I would be very interested to meet you two i am on the West London
Line all afternoon tomorrow perhaps you can come and have a chat and
explain to me why you want me off the railways.


Keithy.
A soon to be made redundant Guard. For the second time,