DERWENT Critique my tube map
Thu, 10 May 2007 00:28:32 GMT, Sarah Brown


In article ,
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 9 May 2007, Peter Smyth wrote:

MAP SHOWDOWN

I vote for this one

http://www.colourcountry.net/colourc...aces/media.pdf

Oh, that is not right. That is really so very not right at all.

The geek in me thinks that's the coolest thing I've seen in ages.

The planner in me thinks what happens when T5 opens...

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On Thu, 10 May 2007, alex_t wrote:

You could make it look right by distorting the lines to have them both
running through north-south, but after all the fuss we've had about
layout, that seems silly.

Oh, come on - what haven't I done with that map already? ;-) I will bend
Victoria as you described.

As you wish!

Camden Town's not cross-platform?

Is it? I thought it has two close, but separate "sub-stations"?

Not exactly. There are separate bits for the Barnet and Edgware branches,
but the southbound platforms for both are sunk below the northbound
platforms, and there are level passageways connecting each directional
pair. Hang on, i'll have a crack at some ascii art:

_____ _____
/ \______________________/ \
| NB Ew | passageway | NB HB |
\_____/----------------------\_____/
_____ _____
/ \______________________/ \
| SB Ew | passageway | SB HB |
\_____/----------------------\_____/

That's the cross-section you'd get if you made a vertical, east-west slice
through the middle of the station, looking from the south side. NB/SB is
northbound/southbound, Ew is Edgware, and HB is High Barnet. The crude
circles are the running tunnels, and the things labelled 'passageway' are,
er, passageways. So, although the platforms for each branch are right next
to each other in horizontal terms, the vertical separation means that
there's level interchange. I don't know if you'd call it cross-platform;
it's rather further between them than at Mile End or Finchley Road. Still,
better than stairs. Also, there are only two passageways for each pair (i
think), and since lots of people interchange here in the peaks, it gets
dangerously overcrowded, so it's hardly an easy interchange at those
times.

Poplar - you haven't given it a dot, but it has a four-track, two-island
layout, much the same as at Kennington, so perhaps you should.

Baker Street - i'd err on the side of understatement, and make the Met
platforms separate to the Circle.

What's wrong with just letting the confluence of lines in one circle
show cross-platformity?

It will look too similar to same track usage in many cases (check
Chiswick Park or Wembley Park on my map).

Chiswick Park?

I see what you mean, but i think there'd be an obvious difference between,
say, Ealing Common and Finsbury Park even without the dots - separate
lines vs lines that are actually stuck together. If you don't think it's
obvious enough, fair enough.

I'm intrigued by Alex's choice to represent Edgware Road as two
unconnected circles with a single name.

Well, that's because I was clueless to their "official" status. I will
name them both now.

No! I liked it that way. The two stations are just as close as at
Hammersmith (easier to get between, in fact). Don't let the whims of LU
put you off!

Here's another thing - you might consider somehow showing the four-track
nature of the Metropolitan north of Wembley Park; Clive explains it all:

http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/metr....html#features

But basically, if i've got it right, the line splits into fast and slow
pairs just after Finchley Road, with the slow pair going through Preston
Road, Northwick Park, Harrow on the Hill, and then heading to Uxbridge,
and the fast pair going past the first two stations and in to Harrow on
the Hill. After that, the fast pair splits again, into a second slow pair
which goes through all the stations up to and including Moor Park, and
then goes to Watford, and a second fast pair which goes straight to Moor
Park, and then off to Amersham. Except it's more complicated than this, as
there are all sorts of junctions where trains can switch tracks, and
various service patterns, etc. Oh, and the second fast pair also has NR
trains on it!

Anyway, i *think* you could just add fast tracks from Finchley Road to
Wembley Park, and then from Wembley Park to Harrow on the Hill, and then
from there to Moor Park. The first two sections would lie to the north of
the all-stations line, and the third one to the south; that's not
geographical, but it does, i think, show where the trains mostly go.

tom

--
I gotta handful of vertebrae and a headful of mad! -- The Doomguy

"Tom Anderson" wrote

Poplar - you haven't given it a dot, but it has a four-track, two-island
layout, much the same as at Kennington, so perhaps you should.

Yes. IIRC the Stratford - Canary Wharf - Lewisham service uses the outer
faces of the platforms, giving cross-platform intercahnge with the Ban/Tower
Gateway - Beckton/George V service, which use the inner faces.

Here's another thing - you might consider somehow showing the four-track
nature of the Metropolitan north of Wembley Park; Clive explains it all:

http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/metr....html#features

But basically, if i've got it right, the line splits into fast and slow
pairs just after Finchley Road, with the slow pair going through Preston
Road, Northwick Park, Harrow on the Hill, and then heading to Uxbridge,
and the fast pair going past the first two stations and in to Harrow on
the Hill.

A bit of confusion here - the Met splits into fast and slow lines just south
of Wembely Park, with the slow lines in the middle and the fast lines on the
outside. Preston Road and Northwick Park have a single island platform
serving the slow lines. There is also a separate National Rail pair, used by
Chiltern.

At Harrow-on-the-Hill there are three island platforms, the southern one for
Chiltern, the centre one for the pair of northbound Met lines, and the
northern one for the southbound Met pair. North of Harrow the Uxbridge
branch leaves from between the northbbound and southbound Met lines by a
diveunder, and a flat junction takes fast Met terains across to what had
been the National Rail pair. This leaves the Watford line as the
continuation of what had been the Met lines south of Harrow. These have
platforms at intermediate stations, while the fast pair don't have usable
platforms until Moor Park, which has separate northbound and siouthbound
islands. So you basically have cross-platform interchange between Met and
Jubilee at Finchley Road and again at Wembley Park, and between fast and
sklow Met trains at Harrow-on-the-Hill and again at Moor Park.

Peter

On 10 May, 21:26, "Peter Masson" wrote:
Moor Park, which has separate northbound and siouthbound
islands.

Moor Park as fast and slow islands, which I've just realised is wrong
on my map.

U

On Thu, 10 May 2007, Peter Masson wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote

Here's another thing - you might consider somehow showing the
four-track nature of the Metropolitan north of Wembley Park; Clive
explains it all:

http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/metr....html#features

But basically, if i've got it right, the line splits into fast and slow
pairs just after Finchley Road, with the slow pair going through
Preston Road, Northwick Park, Harrow on the Hill, and then heading to
Uxbridge, and the fast pair going past the first two stations and in to
Harrow on the Hill.

A bit of confusion here - the Met splits into fast and slow lines just south
of Wembely Park, with the slow lines in the middle and the fast lines on the
outside. Preston Road and Northwick Park have a single island platform
serving the slow lines. There is also a separate National Rail pair, used by
Chiltern.

At Harrow-on-the-Hill there are three island platforms, the southern one
for Chiltern, the centre one for the pair of northbound Met lines, and
the northern one for the southbound Met pair. North of Harrow the
Uxbridge branch leaves from between the northbbound and southbound Met
lines by a diveunder, and a flat junction takes fast Met terains across
to what had been the National Rail pair. This leaves the Watford line as
the continuation of what had been the Met lines south of Harrow. These
have platforms at intermediate stations, while the fast pair don't have
usable platforms until Moor Park, which has separate northbound and
siouthbound islands. So you basically have cross-platform interchange
between Met and Jubilee at Finchley Road and again at Wembley Park, and
between fast and sklow Met trains at Harrow-on-the-Hill and again at
Moor Park.

Okay, well put. I think i knew that, but i do get really confused thinking
about the Met!

tom

--
I only listen to mashups of The Carpenters and ear-bleeding German gabber
-- boomaga

I'm lost in the thread, so I will just reply to myself.
I've uploaded a new version, with reworked Circle line (from High
Street Kensington to King's Cross via Baker Street) - so the area of
Paddington and Bayswater/Queensway situation fixed now. I hope that I
did not introduce new mistakes, as I had to change most of the
surrounding lines.

NB: Do not bother checking Bakerloo west of Warwick Avenue, and Met/
Jubilee north of Baker Street - I will redraw them during the weekend.

http://www.fxfp.com/lib/tube/

In article , Peter Masson
writes
A bit of confusion here - the Met splits into fast and slow lines just south
of Wembely Park,
[...]

Since people are getting confused ... the following lists the lines from
north-east to south-west in each section:

* From Finchley Road to just south of Wembley Park - six tracks:
Southbound Metropolitan (no platform at some stations)
Southbound Jubilee
Northbound Jubilee
Northbound Metropolitan (no platform at some stations)
Up Chiltern
Down Chiltern

* Through Wembley Park - eight tracks
Southbound Metropolitan Fast [6]
Southbound Metropolitan Slow [5]
Southbound Jubilee [4]
Northbound Jubilee [3]
Northbound Metropolitan Slow [2]
Northbound Metropolitan Fast [1]
Up Chiltern (no platform)
Down Chiltern (no platform)
Platform numbers shown in brackets; 2-3 and 4-5 are island platforms.

* From north of Wembley Park to Harrow-on-the-Hill - six tracks:
Southbound Fast (no platform except at HotH)
Southbound Slow
Northbound Slow
Northbound Fast (no platform except at HotH)
Up Chiltern (no platform except at HotH)
Down Chiltern (no platform except at HotH)
The six tracks are platforms 6 to 1 in that order, grouped as three
island platforms. All four LU tracks south of Harrow-on-the-Hill connect
to both platforms in that direction and then to all three routes
(fast/slow/Uxbridge) to the north of it, but the Chiltern lines only
connect to the fast lines northwards (trains on the Northbound Fast can
also use platform 1).

* From north of Harrow-on-the-Hill to north of Moor Park - four tracks:
Southbound Slow
Northbound Slow
Southbound Fast (no platform except at Moor Park; used by Chiltern)
Northbound Fast (no platform except at Moor Park; used by Chiltern)

At Moor Park, the slow lines connect to both Watford and Rickmansworth,
but the fast lines only to Rickmansworth.

--
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In article . com, MIG
writes
Hmm. That map implies that the northbound City track passes *under* the
Victoria line, whereas this cut-away drawing:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...9/lteusmod.jpg

Shows it passing *over* it. Anyone know which is right?

I'd misread this question before.

Having actually gone and looked on the way to work this morning, I can
report that the Northern (Bank) definitely climbs as it leaves Euston
for Camden Town while the Victoria Line is definitely heading downwards.
So the Northern goes over the Victoria (but all of them go *under* the
CX branch).

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article , Tom
Anderson writes
Camden Town's not cross-platform?
Is it? I thought it has two close, but separate "sub-stations"?

Not exactly. There are separate bits for the Barnet and Edgware
branches,

It's also worth noting that these form a \/-shape; they are much closer
together at the south end than the north end (since both follow the
roads above).

but the southbound platforms for both are sunk below the northbound
platforms, and there are level passageways connecting each directional
pair. Hang on, i'll have a crack at some ascii art:

Actually only the northbound connection is level - the southbound
passageways involves stairs to connect to them. There's also much more
vertical overlap than you show. Making an attempt to edit your artwork:

_____ _____
/ \______________________________/ \
| NB Ew ____________ ____ ______ NB HB |
\_____/ _/ _| |_ \_ \_____/
_____ _/ _| |_ \_ _____
/ \__/ _| |_ \_____/ \
| SB Ew ____| |_______ SB HB |
\_____/ \_____/

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On May 11, 8:06 am, "Clive D. W. Feather" c...@on-the-
train.demon.co.uk wrote:
In article , Tom
Anderson writes
Not exactly. There are separate bits for the Barnet and Edgware
branches,

It's also worth noting that these form a \/-shape; they are much closer
together at the south end than the north end (since both follow the
roads above).

How much re-plumbing and tunnelling would be needed to have the
southbound
platforms at Camden Town for the Bank branch and Charing Cross branch
rather
than calling at different platforms depending upon where they came
from, which
is not terribly useful.

(I assume this would be done if they ever split the Northern Line into
two lines?)

--
Abi