Peter Masson wrote:

The Waterloo & City crosses under the District and Circle just west of
Blackfriars. Bank is if anything closer to Cannon Street than it is to
Monument.

Why, then, was the escalator link built between Bank and Monument rather
than between Bank and Cannon Street?
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

In message , at 21:02:12 on Sun,
6 May 2007, Olof Lagerkvist remarked:

* Canary Wharf Jubilee Line station is actually located east of the DLR
bridge between Canary Wharf and Heron Quays.

The DLR also does two right-angle bends either side of Heron Quays. But
as has been said, how much is the map trying to plot the exact course of
each line, as well as the position of the stations?

the two parts of the Charing Cross station, Bakerloo and Northern, are
located longer from each other than Charing Cross and Embankment
platforms on the Northern Line. Maybe you could let the Northern Line
cross over the Bakerloo south of Waterloo or something so that you can
draw the Northern Line's Embankment and Charing Cross stations closer.

The Charing Cross Bakerloo line "station" is the former Trafalgar Square
station, and is noticeably west of the northern line part of the
station.

* There is cross-plaform interchange between the Northern Line branches
at Kennington.

I think the City branch of the Northern Line goes west of Mornington
Crescent. And if the Northern and Victoria have a cross-platform change
at Euston (I forget if it's true) then they shouldn't really be shown
crossing at right angles!
--
Roland Perry

"David of Broadway" wrote in message
...
Peter Masson wrote:

The Waterloo & City crosses under the District and Circle just west of
Blackfriars. Bank is if anything closer to Cannon Street than it is to
Monument.

Why, then, was the escalator link built between Bank and Monument rather
than between Bank and Cannon Street?

The location of a tube station can be taken as the location of its street
entrance, and on that basis Bank is slightly nearer to Cannon Street than it
is to Monument. However, the Northern Line platforms of Bank station lie
under King William Street, and at their southern end are quite close to
Monument station. Using the 'escalator connection' from the Waterloo & City
or Central Line to the District and Circle at Monument involved two or three
escalators, plus a walk the length of the Northern line platform.

Peter

"Roland Perry" wrote

I think the City branch of the Northern Line goes west of Mornington
Crescent. And if the Northern and Victoria have a cross-platform change
at Euston (I forget if it's true) then they shouldn't really be shown
crossing at right angles!

Victoria Line and City branch of the Northern Line do have cross-platform
interchange at Euston. As you would expect, the cross-platform interchange
is between the northbound Victoria and northbound Northern Lines, and again
between southbound Victoria and southbound Northern Lines, though curiously
Victoria and Northern trains run in opposite directions through the station.
If you want to travel from Euston to Kings Cross (allowing for the walks to
and from the surface it's probably quicker to walk on the surface then whole
way) you take either a northbound Victoria Line, or a southbound Northern
Line, train.

Peter

On May 7, 8:59 am, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"David of Broadway" wrote in ...

Peter Masson wrote:

The Waterloo & City crosses under the District and Circle just west of
Blackfriars. Bank is if anything closer to Cannon Street than it is to
Monument.

Why, then, was the escalator link built between Bank and Monument rather
than between Bank and Cannon Street?

The location of a tube station can be taken as the location of its street
entrance, and on that basis Bank is slightly nearer to Cannon Street than it
is to Monument. However, the Northern Line platforms of Bank station lie
under King William Street, and at their southern end are quite close to
Monument station. Using the 'escalator connection' from the Waterloo & City
or Central Line to the District and Circle at Monument involved two or three
escalators, plus a walk the length of the Northern line platform.



Yes, if I arrived on the Central or Waterloo and City wanting the
District, I'd walk over the ground to Cannon Street, but if I arrived
on the Northern I'd use the "escalator link" to Monument.

But the signage at Bank is a bit bizarre. If you follow signs from
the Central to the District, I think it's even worse than the long
route along the Northern Line platforms.

It takes you up a flight of steps over the Central platforms, then
down two long escalators to below the Northern to the DLR level, and
then finally up again at Monument through new passageways.

Even if it is important to separate flows so that not everyone heads
for the spiral staircase and the Northern platforms, it would still be
easier to send people via the street.

But the rule seems to be "if it's defined as an interchange, make
people use it regardless of difficulty, and if it's not defined as an
interchange, never tell people about it, however convenient".

On May 7, 12:25 am, Olof Lagerkvist wrote:
wrote:
On 6 Mai, 23:01, Olof Lagerkvist wrote:

There used to be (a huge) close to geographically correct map called
Multi-Modal Map or something like that on the TfL website but I cannot
find it there anymore.

Here's a copy, though 'cache' could mean it won't stay long:
http://cache.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/download...ap/Multi-Modal...

That is the one. Thanks very much!



But this definitely makes no attempt to show the geographical routes
of the lines, merely the locations of the stations. This is what it
ought to do in terms of helping the passengers, but for those of us
obsessed with routes of lines, as I said somewhere, it is worse than a
diagram because of the implied geographical accuracy.

Actually, not even the locations of the stations. I focus immediately
on Trafalgar Square, where there is no indication of a Bakerloo
entrance, let alone station.

"MIG" wrote

But the rule seems to be "if it's defined as an interchange, make
people use it regardless of difficulty,

More or less forced by Oyster technology - if you go out of the station
you'll be charged for a new journey when you go back into the system. How do
things work at Hammersmith when changing between the H&C and other lines?

Peter

On May 7, 9:39 am, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"MIG" wrote



But the rule seems to be "if it's defined as an interchange, make
people use it regardless of difficulty,

More or less forced by Oyster technology - if you go out of the station
you'll be charged for a new journey when you go back into the system. How do
things work at Hammersmith when changing between the H&C and other lines?



Some pairs of stations allow "continuation", eg Heron Quays/Canary
Wharf and Bow Church/Bow Road, and (presumably) Hammersmith. They
could program that possibility into Bank/Cannon Street (the walk can't
be any longer) rather than send people from the Waterloo and City by
such a long and difficult route.

In message .com, at
15:49:56 on Sun, 6 May 2007, remarked:
There used to be (a huge) close to geographically correct map called
Multi-Modal Map or something like that on the TfL website but I cannot
find it there anymore.

Here's a copy, though 'cache' could mean it won't stay long:
http://cache.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/download...-Modal-Map.pdf

Even that map has some "errors". For example, it shows the Circle/Met
between Kings Cross and Farringdon going in a big loop around the
Thameslink station, when in fact the subsurface lines are *inside* the
National Rail lines here.
--
Roland Perry

On May 7, 9:07 am, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote



I think the City branch of the Northern Line goes west of Mornington
Crescent. And if the Northern and Victoria have a cross-platform change
at Euston (I forget if it's true) then they shouldn't really be shown
crossing at right angles!

Victoria Line and City branch of the Northern Line do have cross-platform
interchange at Euston. As you would expect, the cross-platform interchange
is between the northbound Victoria and northbound Northern Lines, and again
between southbound Victoria and southbound Northern Lines, though curiously
Victoria and Northern trains run in opposite directions through the station.
If you want to travel from Euston to Kings Cross (allowing for the walks to
and from the surface it's probably quicker to walk on the surface then whole
way) you take either a northbound Victoria Line, or a southbound Northern
Line, train.


They probably did it that one on the assumption that someone was more
likely to want to change northbound - northbound (eg Green Park to
Tufnell Park) or southbound - southbound (eg Highbury to Angel
[dubious]).

But the side effect is that Euston to Kings Cross requires you to take
a bet on which line to go for, rather than having one cross-platform
interchange where you could catch either.

However, you don't have to go all the way up the escalator and down
again if you find a delay on your first choice line. There's a
staircase and bridge at the western end of the platforms (which also
leads to the emergency spiral staircase).

The layout of the interchange is presumably the reason why the
Victoria Line runs "wrong way" from Warren Street to Kings Cross
(inclusive).