On 21 May, 17:11, John B wrote:
So it seems positively *good* to make people who haven't contributed
to any of this, and who also can't be bothered to find out the most
cost-effective and simplest ways of getting around the city they're
visiting (it's not like Oyster cards are only on sale if you can prove
you were born within the Bow Bells), pay a little bit more than the
rest of us.

Not everyone who visits london will know english well enough to
understand
some guy in a ticket office in a noisy station try and explain Oyster
and how
to use it. They probably have their work cut out just trying to ask
for a ticket
to the right station. Ken should experience what its like and should
be sent
to Paris to listen to an oh-so-happy happy Metro ticket assistant to
explain the
difference between Mobilis and Paris Visite tickets in french. Ripping
off tourists
incidentaly is a good way to make sure they don't come back in a
hurry. If
you think thats a good idea then fair enough.

B2003

On 21 May, 22:05, Boltar wrote:
Not everyone who visits london will know english well enough to
understand
some guy in a ticket office in a noisy station try and explain Oyster
and how
to use it. They probably have their work cut out just trying to ask
for a ticket
to the right station. Ken should experience what its like and should
be sent
to Paris to listen to an oh-so-happy happy Metro ticket assistant to
explain the
difference between Mobilis and Paris Visite tickets in french. Ripping
off tourists
incidentaly is a good way to make sure they don't come back in a
hurry. If
you think thats a good idea then fair enough.

When I go to a foreign city, I read up in advance about how public
transport works in that city. While the main reason is to ensure that
I know how I'm going to get from the airport to my hotel to wherever I
need to go, it also means I can find out how to get the best priced
fares (not least so that I avoid being stranded somewhere remote
without the means to buy a ticket because the machine only takes coins
and local debit cards, forced to fare-dodge and hope no inspector
comes round. Yes, The Netherlands, this means you).

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people either to put in the
same amount of basic research, or to pay more as a result of not doing
so. For example, a quick google search in French for "londres
information transport" brings up this page, which provides a good
summary of the Oyster system:
http://eu.visitlondon.com/fl/fr/travel/underground.html

& finally, if a particular tourist is sufficiently price-conscious to
be driven away by having to pay £6.60 for an ODTC, or £2 for each bus
journey s/he makes, then s/he is likely to be driven away by the price
of hotels, meals, drinks and tourist attractions anyway. As with
transport, if you don't do any research before you arrive, you'll find
yourself paying £150 a night for mediocre accommodation, and paying
£20 for appalling food and marked-up drinks at the Aberdeen Steak
House...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B wrote:

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people either to put in
the same amount of basic research, or to pay more as a result of
not doing so. For example, a quick google search in French for
"londres information transport" brings up this page, which provides
a good summary of the Oyster system:
http://eu.visitlondon.com/fl/fr/travel/underground.html

Yes, that's very good. But if you go to the TfL site, I can't see any
links to foreign language versions of the main pages. I thought the old
site had such links. I would expect the main transport site for a major
international tourist destination to have at least some foreign language
support. (For example, the RATP site for Paris has English, Dutch and
German.)
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:
John B wrote:
c
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people either to put in
the same amount of basic research, or to pay more as a result of
not doing so. For example, a quick google search in French for
"londres information transport" brings up this page, which provides
a good summary of the Oyster system:
http://eu.visitlondon.com/fl/fr/travel/underground.html

Yes, that's very good. But if you go to the TfL site, I can't see any
links to foreign language versions of the main pages. I thought the old
site had such links. I would expect the main transport site for a major
international tourist destination to have at least some foreign language
support. (For example, the RATP site for Paris has English, Dutch and
German.)

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/2732.aspx

bottom of the page

Though, no you cannot got to tfl.gov.uk and click "Version Francais"

John B wrote:
On 21 May, 22:05, Boltar wrote:
Not everyone who visits london will know english well enough to
understand
some guy in a ticket office in a noisy station try and explain Oyster
and how
to use it. They probably have their work cut out just trying to ask
for a ticket
to the right station. Ken should experience what its like and should
be sent
to Paris to listen to an oh-so-happy happy Metro ticket assistant to
explain the
difference between Mobilis and Paris Visite tickets in french. Ripping
off tourists
incidentaly is a good way to make sure they don't come back in a
hurry. If
you think thats a good idea then fair enough.

When I go to a foreign city, I read up in advance about how public
transport works in that city.

Maybe so - but you (and I) are also the sort of person who posts to
transport groups on Usenet, which isn't necessarily very typical of the
average user...

In message , Arthur
Figgis writes

Maybe so - but you (and I) are also the sort of person who posts to
transport groups on Usenet, which isn't necessarily very typical of the
average user...

These days I should think most people would use something like the
forums at www.tripadvisor.com, where there is a huge body of knowledge
about using transport systems around the world. I notice that the finer
points of using Oyster often come up in the London forum (and with some
very knowledgeable replies, too).

--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Arthur
Figgis writes

Maybe so - but you (and I) are also the sort of person who posts to
transport groups on Usenet, which isn't necessarily very typical of
the average user...

These days I should think most people would use something like the
forums at www.tripadvisor.com, where there is a huge body of knowledge
about using transport systems around the world. I notice that the finer
points of using Oyster often come up in the London forum (and with some
very knowledgeable replies, too).

I would doubt that more than a small fraction of the population know
about that sort of thing, and even fewer would be willing to wade
through the crud, half-understood vs pedantic debates, and random asides
on the average forum.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In message , Arthur
Figgis writes

I would doubt that more than a small fraction of the population know
about that sort of thing,

Well, only a small fraction of the world population travels abroad, and
many of those that do so don't necessarily need information on local
transport arrangements. But the UK forums on tripadvisor have well over
a third of a million posts - and there will be more readers than
posters.

Plus, of course, modern guidebooks to London explain how Oyster works
for those who cannot (or choose not) to use the WWW for their research.

For those that just arrive in London without any prior research, tourist
information offices and most hotel receptionists are there to explain
how to use the transport system.

and even fewer would be willing to wade through the crud,
half-understood vs pedantic debates, and random asides on the average
forum.

You have clearly never used tripadvisor.

--
Paul Terry

Let's not hope that LU don't trot out the old favourite about ticket
office staff being redeployed around the station for "security" or
"reassurance" reasons like they did last time. These posts are for the
most part being abolished, otherwise there would be no financial point
in doing it. My own local station had its ticket office hours reduced
in the last round of cuts and will suffer even more next time. The
staff affected are not providing a presence on the platforms, or
assisting on the gateline, because they no longer work there!

On 24 May, 12:23, wrote:
Let's not hope that LU don't trot out the old favourite about ticket
office staff being redeployed around the station for "security" or
"reassurance" reasons like they did last time. These posts are for the
most part being abolished, otherwise there would be no financial point
in doing it. My own local station had its ticket office hours reduced
in the last round of cuts and will suffer even more next time. The
staff affected are not providing a presence on the platforms, or
assisting on the gateline, because they no longer work there!

Evidence? AFAIK LUL has made no customer-facing redundancies and all
former-ticket-office staff have been redeployed.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org