On 30 May 2007 16:19:52 -0700, XmaX wrote:

Also, regarding to time limit, I found this:
"The two-hour Maximum Journey Time (MJT) was determined when Pay As
You Go (PAYG) was launched on the basis that Journey Planner didn't
quote any journey on the Tube and DLR taking longer than this." -
http://www.ealingtimes.co.uk/oyster/weekone/

Although (IIRC) it reckons Epping to Chesham takes 1hr57, and that's
assuming no delays and only having to wait 4 minutes for the
half-hourly Chesham shuttle. (Also, I think it's measured from the
moment the train leaves Epping, rather than the moment you touch in.)

Michael Hoffman wrote:

Well you'll have your shopping on you, so that's one way.

Is it permissible to go shopping while transferring from DLR to Jubilee?

Assuming the answer is yes ...

What happens if, after doing your shopping but before entering the
Jubilee station, your plans change and you have to go back to DLR?

(Come to think of it, if you're making that transfer, are you supposed
to touch out at the DLR station or not? And in the opposite direction,
are you supposed to touch in?)
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

MIG wrote:

It may depend on the station and how it's programmed. A few months
ago, forgetting that I was on pay as you go instead of travelcard, I
avoided a blockage at Euston by being waved in through the open gate
by a member of staff and didn't think of touching.

On the train I realised that I hadn't touched in and might face the
penalty.

I got off at Bank (roughly as planned), went via the DLR platform and
touched "in" at the mysterious DLR pads, then went up the escalator
and out through the barrier at Monument, where I was charged for a
single journey in zone 1.

Where I was meant to have been I don't know.

And I assume you checked your journey history at the earliest possible
opportunity?
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

On Wed, 30 May 2007 23:57:30 -0400, David of Broadway
wrote:

Michael Hoffman wrote:

Well you'll have your shopping on you, so that's one way.

Is it permissible to go shopping while transferring from DLR to Jubilee?

This is the very question I had, although I was considering the change
from D/P to H&C at Hammersmith. I think someone said something about
15 minutes being permissible for the OSI. Now, as it happens, I have
an annual Travelcard, so the point is moot, but I have been known to
pop into Tesco in the Broadway[*] every now and again.
[*] And if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere :-)

On May 31, 4:57 am, David of Broadway
wrote:
MIG wrote:
It may depend on the station and how it's programmed. A few months
ago, forgetting that I was on pay as you go instead of travelcard, I
avoided a blockage at Euston by being waved in through the open gate
by a member of staff and didn't think of touching.

On the train I realised that I hadn't touched in and might face the
penalty.

I got off at Bank (roughly as planned), went via the DLR platform and
touched "in" at the mysterious DLR pads, then went up the escalator
and out through the barrier at Monument, where I was charged for a
single journey in zone 1.

Where I was meant to have been I don't know.

And I assume you checked your journey history at the earliest possible
opportunity?



I don't get many opportunities to do that, and I'd been charged the
right amount for what I'd actually done, so I wasn't really bothered.

On 30 May, 20:37, XmaX wrote:
Hi, I recently heard that from the moment of touching in, I have 2
hours to touch out, otherwise I will pay the penalty for not touching
out. Is that true?

I heard they upped it to 3 hours even, but I'm actually not sure about
that.


But I'm quite sure you're completely safe when you do this. It might
not be the right way of doing it, but there's no (practical /
realistic)way they can find this out.

Last weekend I had to bring some of my friends to the Stansted
Express. I didn't want to pay for two single trips, the normal way of
doing this is going Manor House to Liverpool Street (Victoria Line
partly closed and the trains not stopping at Tottenham Hale, grr) and
Liverpool Street back to Manor house. Instead, I touched in at Manor
House, did not go through the gate at Liverpool Street, and touched
out at Finsbury Park, which is close enough to where I had to be.
So the only thing registered here is a zone 2 to zone 2 trip for a
pound. I don't really feel like this is fare-dodging, although the
trip wouldn't make sense if they checked my Oyster on the way back.

This wouldn't work if you try and enter and exit at the same station,
though.

sweek wrote:
On 30 May, 20:37, XmaX wrote:
Hi, I recently heard that from the moment of touching in, I have 2
hours to touch out, otherwise I will pay the penalty for not
touching out. Is that true?

I heard they upped it to 3 hours even, but I'm actually not sure
about that.


But I'm quite sure you're completely safe when you do this. It might
not be the right way of doing it, but there's no (practical /
realistic)way they can find this out.

Last weekend I had to bring some of my friends to the Stansted
Express. I didn't want to pay for two single trips, the normal way
of doing this is going Manor House to Liverpool Street (Victoria
Line partly closed and the trains not stopping at Tottenham Hale,
grr) and Liverpool Street back to Manor house. Instead, I touched
in at Manor House, did not go through the gate at Liverpool Street,
and touched out at Finsbury Park, which is close enough to where I
had to be.
So the only thing registered here is a zone 2 to zone 2 trip for a
pound. I don't really feel like this is fare-dodging,

Of course it is! You deliberately travelled through Zone 1.

Also, if you "had to" take some of your friends to the Stansted Express,
they must have thought you a bit unfriendly to just dump them on the LU
side of the gates and leave them to find Stansted Express on their own,
just because you wanted to save money by defrauding LU.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:
sweek wrote:
On 30 May, 20:37, XmaX wrote:
Hi, I recently heard that from the moment of touching in, I have 2
hours to touch out, otherwise I will pay the penalty for not
touching out. Is that true?

I heard they upped it to 3 hours even, but I'm actually not sure
about that.


But I'm quite sure you're completely safe when you do this. It might
not be the right way of doing it, but there's no (practical /
realistic)way they can find this out.

Last weekend I had to bring some of my friends to the Stansted
Express. I didn't want to pay for two single trips, the normal way
of doing this is going Manor House to Liverpool Street (Victoria
Line partly closed and the trains not stopping at Tottenham Hale,
grr) and Liverpool Street back to Manor house. Instead, I touched
in at Manor House, did not go through the gate at Liverpool Street,
and touched out at Finsbury Park, which is close enough to where I
had to be.
So the only thing registered here is a zone 2 to zone 2 trip for a
pound. I don't really feel like this is fare-dodging,

Of course it is! You deliberately travelled through Zone 1.

Also, if you "had to" take some of your friends to the Stansted Express,
they must have thought you a bit unfriendly to just dump them on the LU
side of the gates and leave them to find Stansted Express on their own,
just because you wanted to save money by defrauding LU.

Is there a way for him to buy a single ticket on Oyster that is not
fraudulent for this journey? On a paper ticket I assume he would be fine
with a Zone 12 single.

I've gone to Gloucester Road before to gawk at the art installation that
TfL was advertising all over the system. When I did this I was on a
Travelcard, but if I were using PAYG how could I be sure to avoid fare
evasion or a double maximum fare?
--
Michael Hoffman

Richard J. wrote:

Of course it is! You deliberately travelled through Zone 1.

Also, if you "had to" take some of your friends to the Stansted Express,
they must have thought you a bit unfriendly to just dump them on the LU
side of the gates and leave them to find Stansted Express on their own,
just because you wanted to save money by defrauding LU.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)
I travelled through zone 1, but at the same time I travelled from a
zone 2 to a zone 2 station, and LU just calculates the fare between
the two. If I travel from Ladbroke Grove to Earl's Court, it sees that
as a zone 2 to zone 2 journey as well. If I take the H&C to Edgware
Road and change for the District/Circle there to get to Earl's Court,
I would've also travelled through zone 1 without paying for it. Would
that be wrong?

Anyway, my friends were more than happy that I took them there and
showed them where to walk to exactly, and understood that I wanted to
save myself some money here.

On May 31, 10:03 am, "Richard J." wrote:
Of course it is! You deliberately travelled through Zone 1.

Also, if you "had to" take some of your friends to the Stansted Express,
they must have thought you a bit unfriendly to just dump them on the LU
side of the gates and leave them to find Stansted Express on their own,
just because you wanted to save money by defrauding LU

Unlike the DLR example (where failing to touch out is deliberate
fraud, although possibly not in a legal sense), I don't think he's
doing anything wrong here. As long as you use the Oyster pads where
provided, the fare calculated by the system is always authoritative,
and the zones travelled through are only advisory. This will be the
case until they add a "by a reasonable, direct route" clause to the
Oyster rules.

U