I've been looking at the zonal single fares for NR within London
zones, and they are all less than £4 except for zones 1 - 6.

However, in the section on exceptions, it says "... those
circumstances where fares for use on some National Rail services are
set by London Underground. This generally applies where there is a
choice of London Underground and National Rail services on joint or
parallel routes. On these routes, the fare for the journey will
continue to be the appropriate London Underground fare for the journey
being made."

Does this mean that a single, for example, from Barking to West Ham on
NR is £4 instead of the usual £1.90 for an NR zone 3 - 4 single?

MIG wrote:

Does this mean that a single, for example, from Barking to West Ham on
NR is £4 instead of the usual £1.90 for an NR zone 3 - 4 single?

Avantix says SDS was GBP 3.
--
Michael Hoffman

"MIG" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been looking at the zonal single fares for NR within London
zones, and they are all less than £4 except for zones 1 - 6.

However, in the section on exceptions, it says "... those
circumstances where fares for use on some National Rail services are
set by London Underground. This generally applies where there is a
choice of London Underground and National Rail services on joint or
parallel routes. On these routes, the fare for the journey will
continue to be the appropriate London Underground fare for the journey
being made."

Does this mean that a single, for example, from Barking to West Ham on
NR is £4 instead of the usual £1.90 for an NR zone 3 - 4 single?


No its £3.00 because the LU cash single fare is £3.00 outside zone 1.

I suspect perhaps that because of the fairly continuous media criticism, the
£3.00 fare is lost in the detail...

Paul S

On Jun 12, 10:46 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message

ups.com...
I've been looking at the zonal single fares for NR within London
zones, and they are all less than £4 except for zones 1 - 6.

However, in the section on exceptions, it says "... those
circumstances where fares for use on some National Rail services are
set by London Underground. This generally applies where there is a
choice of London Underground and National Rail services on joint or
parallel routes. On these routes, the fare for the journey will
continue to be the appropriate London Underground fare for the journey
being made."

Does this mean that a single, for example, from Barking to West Ham on
NR is £4 instead of the usual £1.90 for an NR zone 3 - 4 single?



No its £3.00 because the LU cash single fare is £3.00 outside zone 1.

I suspect perhaps that because of the fairly continuous media criticism, the
£3.00 fare is lost in the detail...

Paul S



Ah yes, of course.

But still a 58% increase on the usual NR fare. Can this be the
intention? Was there ever a time when this exception for NR zonal
fares existed and the Oyster rules wouldn't result in it being more
expensive?

I am not sure about the timing of zonal fares relative to the Oyster
hike.

On Jun 12, 10:12 am, Michael Hoffman wrote:
MIG wrote:
Does this mean that a single, for example, from Barking to West Ham on
NR is £4 instead of the usual £1.90 for an NR zone 3 - 4 single?




Yes, my mistake because it doesn't include zone 1. But it IS offering
the Oyster-related LU cash fare, rather than the much cheaper NR fare
for other routes.

"MIG" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 12, 10:46 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message


Does this mean that a single, for example, from Barking to West Ham on
NR is £4 instead of the usual £1.90 for an NR zone 3 - 4 single?

No its £3.00 because the LU cash single fare is £3.00 outside zone 1.

I suspect perhaps that because of the fairly continuous media criticism,
the
£3.00 fare is lost in the detail...

Ah yes, of course.

But still a 58% increase on the usual NR fare. Can this be the
intention? Was there ever a time when this exception for NR zonal
fares existed and the Oyster rules wouldn't result in it being more
expensive?

I am not sure about the timing of zonal fares relative to the Oyster
hike.

NR zonal fares only came in in Jan this year, when was the last Oyster
hike? - In any case, LU fares have been applicable on that line for yonks
haven't they?

Why is there a need to highlight the higher than average NR cash fare
though? As PAYG is valid, presumably regular users realise that and use
Oyster...

Paul S

On Jun 12, 11:12 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message

oups.com...
On Jun 12, 10:46 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:





"MIG" wrote in message

Does this mean that a single, for example, from Barking to West Ham on
NR is £4 instead of the usual £1.90 for an NR zone 3 - 4 single?

No its £3.00 because the LU cash single fare is £3.00 outside zone 1.

I suspect perhaps that because of the fairly continuous media criticism,
the
£3.00 fare is lost in the detail...
Ah yes, of course.

But still a 58% increase on the usual NR fare. Can this be the
intention? Was there ever a time when this exception for NR zonal
fares existed and the Oyster rules wouldn't result in it being more
expensive?

I am not sure about the timing of zonal fares relative to the Oyster
hike.

NR zonal fares only came in in Jan this year, when was the last Oyster
hike? - In any case, LU fares have been applicable on that line for yonks
haven't they?


Yes, but they would have been lower till last November or so (I
think). Maybe this was the assumption in the NR zonal fare rule, but
it wouldn't have been the case since zonal fares were introduced.




Why is there a need to highlight the higher than average NR cash fare
though? As PAYG is valid, presumably regular users realise that and use
Oyster...



I didn't know for sure if it was higher, that's why I was asking. Not
all users are regular. C2C doesn't generally accept PAYG, but it's
interesting that it does apply the cash penalty fare on that section.
Interavailability normally implies some kind of advantage to the
customer.

On Jun 12, 11:28 am, MIG wrote:
I didn't know for sure if it was higher, that's why I was asking. Not
all users are regular. C2C doesn't generally accept PAYG, but it's
interesting that it does apply the cash penalty fare on that section.
Interavailability normally implies some kind of advantage to the
customer.

I'd think the high LU cash fares apply in exactly the same areas that
Oyster PAYG is available. c2c accept Oyster PAYG everywhere from
Fenchurch St to Upminster, which is the part that parallels the
District Line.

U

On Jun 12, 12:11 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On Jun 12, 11:28 am, MIG wrote:

I didn't know for sure if it was higher, that's why I was asking. Not
all users are regular. C2C doesn't generally accept PAYG, but it's
interesting that it does apply the cash penalty fare on that section.
Interavailability normally implies some kind of advantage to the
customer.

I'd think the high LU cash fares apply in exactly the same areas that
Oyster PAYG is available. c2c accept Oyster PAYG everywhere from
Fenchurch St to Upminster, which is the part that parallels the
District Line.

U




I suppose I was looking for some insight into what might happen when
NR companies do start accepting PAYG in general. My prediction a
while ago was that the first change would be an increase in all cash
fares, in which case the current zonal fares will be shortlived.

Fortunately, this probably won't affect journeys only partly in the
zones. For example, at the moment the difference between Upminster and
Barking from Basildon is £0.80 rather than the current £2.30 zone 4,
5, 6 fare or the £3 LU-based fare.

It looks like the cheapest cash single from Upminster to Barking is a
£2.30 single from Rainham to Barking, rather than the LU-based £3.
This is could conceivably lead to a situation similar to the one where
GNER charged a woman for not travelling the full length of the journey
covered by her ticket. Could they refuse to sell that at Upminster?