Hi, I often travel from Z2 to Z4 via Z1. Can I buy a Z234 travelcard,
or do I need a Z1234? I assume that it might be fare evasion if I use
it, but will it let me through the gates?

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 10:37:06 -0000, XmaX wrote:

Hi, I often travel from Z2 to Z4 via Z1. Can I buy a Z234 travelcard,
or do I need a Z1234? I assume that it might be fare evasion if I use
it, but will it let me through the gates?

Depending on which stations you're travelling between, the Oyster
system should automatically knock the Z1 extension cost off your
pre-pay balance. If your pre-pay balance drops below zero, the gates
won't let you into the system.


Assuming I understand the system right!

Assuming I understand the system right! On Jun 17, 10:47 am, James Farrar wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 10:37:06 -0000, XmaX wrote:
Hi, I often travel from Z2 to Z4 via Z1. Can I buy a Z234 travelcard,
or do I need a Z1234? I assume that it might be fare evasion if I use
it, but will it let me through the gates?

That's what I thought as well. But then the thing that confuses me is
the Oyster shop on the TFL website (which asks you "From Zone" and "To
Zone") and some people here saying that the in case of a travelcard,
the system assumes that you take a route without Zone 1 in this case.
(ie. the predetermined fares apply only to PAYG, and for travecard
only the start/end station zone counts).

I usually travel between Bow Road and Greenford, Acton Town and Ealing
Broadway, so theoretically, it is possible to not go through Z1 by
using the NLL.

On Jun 17, 11:37 am, XmaX wrote:
Hi, I often travel from Z2 to Z4 via Z1. Can I buy a Z234 travelcard,
or do I need a Z1234? I assume that it might be fare evasion if I use
it, but will it let me through the gates?

A paper Travelcard will, but an Oyster card will count the journey as
via Z1 and charge you an excess (usually - if there's a sensible route
not via Z1 it may assume you've gone that way).

U

On Jun 17, 11:14 am, Mr Thant
wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:37 am, XmaX wrote:

Hi, I often travel from Z2 to Z4 via Z1. Can I buy a Z234 travelcard,
or do I need a Z1234? I assume that it might be fare evasion if I use
it, but will it let me through the gates?

A paper Travelcard will, but an Oyster card will count the journey as
via Z1 and charge you an excess (usually - if there's a sensible route
not via Z1 it may assume you've gone that way).

U


But then, I can't buy a 7 day paper travelcard, can I? Besides, how
does the system know which route is sensible? I know that in some
cases it is impossibe to travel between certain stations without
touching Z1, but sometimes you can indeed do it by using another,
longer route. The system doesn't know which route you travel, so does
it assume the shortest one or just looks at the zones you enter or
exit?

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:27:03 -0000, XmaX wrote:

On Jun 17, 11:14 am, Mr Thant
wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:37 am, XmaX wrote:

Hi, I often travel from Z2 to Z4 via Z1. Can I buy a Z234 travelcard,
or do I need a Z1234? I assume that it might be fare evasion if I use
it, but will it let me through the gates?

A paper Travelcard will, but an Oyster card will count the journey as
via Z1 and charge you an excess (usually - if there's a sensible route
not via Z1 it may assume you've gone that way).

But then, I can't buy a 7 day paper travelcard, can I?

Yes you can - at a National Rail station that is not equipped for Oyster
tickets and there are literally hundreds of those.

Besides, how
does the system know which route is sensible?

Someone has defined that in the commercial rules. All systems like this
have to have them or else anarchy rules. Under the pre Oyster system
certain single tickets on LU had implied routeing in order to derive the
fare. We still have issues today for certain journeys like Stratford -
Richmond or Highbury - Richmond where there are three rail route options
and 3 or 4 different fares.

I know that in some
cases it is impossibe to travel between certain stations without
touching Z1, but sometimes you can indeed do it by using another,
longer route. The system doesn't know which route you travel, so does
it assume the shortest one or just looks at the zones you enter or
exit?

The system will apply the commercial rules it has been given.

You *seem* to be asking for permission to travel via Zone 1 but not pay
for it. Either pay the money up front for a Travelcard including Z1, or
get charged via PAYG on Oyster, or travel not via Z1 or else cheat the
system and run the risk of being caught for fare evasion and face
potential prosecution.

If I was to guess how you made your journeys I would say District Line
direct or else District and Central Lines. Am I right or am I right?

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Jun 17, 12:44 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:27:03 -0000, XmaX wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:14 am, Mr Thant
wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:37 am, XmaX wrote:

Hi, I often travel from Z2 to Z4 via Z1. Can I buy a Z234 travelcard,
or do I need a Z1234? I assume that it might be fare evasion if I use
it, but will it let me through the gates?

A paper Travelcard will, but an Oyster card will count the journey as
via Z1 and charge you an excess (usually - if there's a sensible route
not via Z1 it may assume you've gone that way).
But then, I can't buy a 7 day paper travelcard, can I?

Yes you can - at a National Rail station that is not equipped for Oyster
tickets and there are literally hundreds of those.

Besides, how
does the system know which route is sensible?

Someone has defined that in the commercial rules. All systems like this
have to have them or else anarchy rules. Under the pre Oyster system
certain single tickets on LU had implied routeing in order to derive the
fare. We still have issues today for certain journeys like Stratford -
Richmond or Highbury - Richmond where there are three rail route options
and 3 or 4 different fares.

I know that in some
cases it is impossibe to travel between certain stations without
touching Z1, but sometimes you can indeed do it by using another,
longer route. The system doesn't know which route you travel, so does
it assume the shortest one or just looks at the zones you enter or
exit?

The system will apply the commercial rules it has been given.

You *seem* to be asking for permission to travel via Zone 1 but not pay
for it. Either pay the money up front for a Travelcard including Z1, or
get charged via PAYG on Oyster, or travel not via Z1 or else cheat the
system and run the risk of being caught for fare evasion and face
potential prosecution.

If I was to guess how you made your journeys I would say District Line
direct or else District and Central Lines. Am I right or am I right?

--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!

Yes I am using mostly Central and District lines, DLR sometimes. And
basically, you are right that I am trying to go through Z1 without
paying for it, and I agree that it is not right thing to do. But then,
what are the chances of being caught? Do they even check the tickets
in the Underground (I know they do in DLR, but then it's within Z23)?

If you can buy a paper travelcard, what is the advantage of using
Oyster then? They cost the same, don't they? So what's the difference?
By the way, can you buy it in the DLR ticket machine?

On Jun 17, 3:08 pm, XmaX wrote:
On Jun 17, 12:44 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:





On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:27:03 -0000, XmaX wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:14 am, Mr Thant
wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:37 am, XmaX wrote:

Hi, I often travel from Z2 to Z4 via Z1. Can I buy a Z234 travelcard,
or do I need a Z1234? I assume that it might be fare evasion if I use
it, but will it let me through the gates?

A paper Travelcard will, but an Oyster card will count the journey as
via Z1 and charge you an excess (usually - if there's a sensible route
not via Z1 it may assume you've gone that way).
But then, I can't buy a 7 day paper travelcard, can I?

Yes you can - at a National Rail station that is not equipped for Oyster
tickets and there are literally hundreds of those.

Besides, how
does the system know which route is sensible?

Someone has defined that in the commercial rules. All systems like this
have to have them or else anarchy rules. Under the pre Oyster system
certain single tickets on LU had implied routeing in order to derive the
fare. We still have issues today for certain journeys like Stratford -
Richmond or Highbury - Richmond where there are three rail route options
and 3 or 4 different fares.

I know that in some
cases it is impossibe to travel between certain stations without
touching Z1, but sometimes you can indeed do it by using another,
longer route. The system doesn't know which route you travel, so does
it assume the shortest one or just looks at the zones you enter or
exit?

The system will apply the commercial rules it has been given.

You *seem* to be asking for permission to travel via Zone 1 but not pay
for it. Either pay the money up front for a Travelcard including Z1, or
get charged via PAYG on Oyster, or travel not via Z1 or else cheat the
system and run the risk of being caught for fare evasion and face
potential prosecution.

If I was to guess how you made your journeys I would say District Line
direct or else District and Central Lines. Am I right or am I right?

--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!

Yes I am using mostly Central and District lines, DLR sometimes. And
basically, you are right that I am trying to go through Z1 without
paying for it, and I agree that it is not right thing to do. But then,
what are the chances of being caught? Do they even check the tickets
in the Underground (I know they do in DLR, but then it's within Z23)?

If you can buy a paper travelcard, what is the advantage of using
Oyster then? They cost the same, don't they? So what's the difference?
By the way, can you buy it in the DLR ticket machine?



The difference seems to be that if you have a zone 2, 3, 4 travelcard
on Oyster and (be assumed to) go through zone 1 you'll be charged
£1.50 from your PAYG balance.

If you have a zone 2, 3, 4 paper travelcard, you have three choices.

1) avoid paying
2) pay a £4 extension for the zone 1 part of the journey
3) get off twice during the journey, go to the gateline and back and
wait for another train, so that you can touch in and out and pay £1.50
on your (separate) Oyster.

Quite what the situation is if there is no boundary 1/2 station I
don't know.

That is, with a 2, 3, 4 paper travelcard, can you travel into zone 1
purely to touch in with your Oyster at the first stop, or do you have
to get off while still in zone 2 and then pay £2 for a zone 1/2
journey?

I think you can get a seven-day travelcard from DLR machines, but not
certain now. Everything the DLR sells is paper.

On Jun 17, 4:47 pm, MIG wrote:
On Jun 17, 3:08 pm, XmaX wrote:



On Jun 17, 12:44 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:27:03 -0000, XmaX wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:14 am, Mr Thant
wrote:
On Jun 17, 11:37 am, XmaX wrote:

Hi, I often travel from Z2 to Z4 via Z1. Can I buy a Z234 travelcard,
or do I need a Z1234? I assume that it might be fare evasion if I use
it, but will it let me through the gates?

A paper Travelcard will, but an Oyster card will count the journey as
via Z1 and charge you an excess (usually - if there's a sensible route
not via Z1 it may assume you've gone that way).
But then, I can't buy a 7 day paper travelcard, can I?

Yes you can - at a National Rail station that is not equipped for Oyster
tickets and there are literally hundreds of those.

Besides, how
does the system know which route is sensible?

Someone has defined that in the commercial rules. All systems like this
have to have them or else anarchy rules. Under the pre Oyster system
certain single tickets on LU had implied routeing in order to derive the
fare. We still have issues today for certain journeys like Stratford -
Richmond or Highbury - Richmond where there are three rail route options
and 3 or 4 different fares.

I know that in some
cases it is impossibe to travel between certain stations without
touching Z1, but sometimes you can indeed do it by using another,
longer route. The system doesn't know which route you travel, so does
it assume the shortest one or just looks at the zones you enter or
exit?

The system will apply the commercial rules it has been given.

You *seem* to be asking for permission to travel via Zone 1 but not pay
for it. Either pay the money up front for a Travelcard including Z1, or
get charged via PAYG on Oyster, or travel not via Z1 or else cheat the
system and run the risk of being caught for fare evasion and face
potential prosecution.

If I was to guess how you made your journeys I would say District Line
direct or else District and Central Lines. Am I right or am I right?

--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!

Yes I am using mostly Central and District lines, DLR sometimes. And
basically, you are right that I am trying to go through Z1 without
paying for it, and I agree that it is not right thing to do. But then,
what are the chances of being caught? Do they even check the tickets
in the Underground (I know they do in DLR, but then it's within Z23)?

If you can buy a paper travelcard, what is the advantage of using
Oyster then? They cost the same, don't they? So what's the difference?
By the way, can you buy it in the DLR ticket machine?

The difference seems to be that if you have a zone 2, 3, 4 travelcard
on Oyster and (be assumed to) go through zone 1 you'll be charged
£1.50 from your PAYG balance.

If you have a zone 2, 3, 4 paper travelcard, you have three choices.

1) avoid paying
2) pay a £4 extension for the zone 1 part of the journey
3) get off twice during the journey, go to the gateline and back and
wait for another train, so that you can touch in and out and pay £1.50
on your (separate) Oyster.

Quite what the situation is if there is no boundary 1/2 station I
don't know.

That is, with a 2, 3, 4 paper travelcard, can you travel into zone 1
purely to touch in with your Oyster at the first stop, or do you have
to get off while still in zone 2 and then pay £2 for a zone 1/2
journey?

I think you can get a seven-day travelcard from DLR machines, but not
certain now. Everything the DLR sells is paper.

OK, great. So in other words, I can indeed travel via Z1 with Z234
paper travelcard, yes? I understand that I could be in trouble if
someone catches me, but how can that happen? In DLR, there are
inspectors, but it's all Z23, so it's OK. Buses - no zones, so OK.
Underground - wrong zones, but who checks the tickets apart from the
gates, which wouldn't do anything anyway?

I am pretty sure that DLR machines sell some kind of travelcards, but
the DLR is within Z23, so I suppose it only sells within these zones.

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:52:30 -0700, XmaX wrote:

On Jun 17, 4:47 pm, MIG wrote:
On Jun 17, 3:08 pm, XmaX wrote:
On Jun 17, 12:44 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

If I was to guess how you made your journeys I would say District Line
direct or else District and Central Lines. Am I right or am I right?

Yes I am using mostly Central and District lines, DLR sometimes. And
basically, you are right that I am trying to go through Z1 without
paying for it, and I agree that it is not right thing to do. But then,
what are the chances of being caught? Do they even check the tickets
in the Underground (I know they do in DLR, but then it's within Z23)?

If you can buy a paper travelcard, what is the advantage of using
Oyster then? They cost the same, don't they? So what's the difference?
By the way, can you buy it in the DLR ticket machine?

The difference seems to be that if you have a zone 2, 3, 4 travelcard
on Oyster and (be assumed to) go through zone 1 you'll be charged
£1.50 from your PAYG balance.

If you have a zone 2, 3, 4 paper travelcard, you have three choices.

1) avoid paying
2) pay a £4 extension for the zone 1 part of the journey
3) get off twice during the journey, go to the gateline and back and
wait for another train, so that you can touch in and out and pay £1.50
on your (separate) Oyster.

Quite what the situation is if there is no boundary 1/2 station I
don't know.

That is, with a 2, 3, 4 paper travelcard, can you travel into zone 1
purely to touch in with your Oyster at the first stop, or do you have
to get off while still in zone 2 and then pay £2 for a zone 1/2
journey?

I think you can get a seven-day travelcard from DLR machines, but not
certain now. Everything the DLR sells is paper.

OK, great. So in other words, I can indeed travel via Z1 with Z234
paper travelcard, yes? I understand that I could be in trouble if
someone catches me, but how can that happen? In DLR, there are
inspectors, but it's all Z23, so it's OK. Buses - no zones, so OK.
Underground - wrong zones, but who checks the tickets apart from the
gates, which wouldn't do anything anyway?

I am pretty sure that DLR machines sell some kind of travelcards, but
the DLR is within Z23, so I suppose it only sells within these zones.

So Bank and Tower Gateway stations have moved out of Zone 1 have they?
DLR covers Zones 1-3 over its network.

I think you really need to consider that ticket inspections are
undertaken on trains and on interchange routes for DLR and for LU. If
you are caught then you may be at risk of prosecution rather than being
levied a penalty fare.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!