Jack Taylor wrote:
Mojo wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but what signaling problems would affect the use
of SDO, such as not releasing the doors in the rear coach?

Sorry, I wasn't very clear on that, was I? Willesden Junction will only hold
three cars. With four car units it would not be possible to pull forward
such that the inner sets of doors in the leading and trailing cars were at
the platform and the other sets cut out because of the position of the
station starting signal at the end of the platform. Either that would need
to be relocated or otherwise both sets of doors on the rear car would have
to be cut out (as that would be off the platform) - not very desirable or
customer friendly.


The Rules of the Plan give the following platform lengths for Willesden
Junction:

Low Level: Up and Down platforms - 125m, Bay - 67m
High Level: Eastbound - 55m, Westbound - 72m

I don't know how they worked that out, but that gives a 5 metre overhang
on the Eastbound with a 3 car set if it's accurate!

Cheers,

Barry

On Jul 12, 7:44 pm, asdf wrote:

I don't think the ATO thing is an issue - Victoria Line trains are
already capable of being driven manually,

I am aware of that.

and can be equipped with
tripcocks for when they need to travel over other lines (e.g. to reach
the works at Acton). Presumably they would just need to be equipped
with conventional power/brake handles,

Nonetheless, that is a lot of expensive work for 45 years old trains.

More so because the Bakerloo line also gets a signalling upgrade at
some stage (which again I think ties in with the service alteration)
and that means further conversion.

Cascading 1967 like this does not make sense.

--
Nick

On Jul 12, 11:32 pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"sweek" wrote



Initially, TfL may substitute the current trains running the Euston -
Watford service (aged Class 313 and Class 508 trains) with some
(modified) stock cascaded from the Victoria line after that line
receives its new trains.

i.e. substituting aged (30-year-old) Class 313 and 508 trains with modern
(40-year old) Victoria line stock.



Just what I was thinking, but then I thought "Don't say anything ...
any plan to replace 313s and 508s must be encouraged".

On Jul 13, 5:34 am, D7666 wrote:
Nonetheless, that is a lot of expensive work for 45 years old trains.

AIUI several Victoria Line units have a 1972 stock cab on the inner
end, and several Bakerloo units are double ended, so quite a few extra
single-ended 1972 stock units can be created with nothing more than re-
marshalling (No idea about figures).

More so because the Bakerloo line also gets a signalling upgrade at
some stage (which again I think ties in with the service alteration)
and that means further conversion.

Not due to be completed until 2019, and if it's done like the Victoria
Line was they'll just have both systems running in parallel, requiring
no changes to the trains. I'm pretty sure the Watford extension is due
long before then.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, sweek wrote (quoting ATO):

Initially, TfL may substitute the current trains running the Euston -
Watford service (aged Class 313 and Class 508 trains) with some
(modified) stock cascaded from the Victoria line after that line
receives its new trains.

Tube trains running into Euston mainline station? Seriously? Who would
drive them, and how would the line be signalled and electrified?

tom

--
And the future is certain, give us time to work it out

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, D7666 wrote:

On Jul 11, 3:49 pm, Charles Ellson wrote:


On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:12:53 GMT, "Jack Taylor"
wrote:

(class 416) in the interim - I don't remember any booked four car formations
BICBW.

structures within them there would have been difficulty in using
2x2EPBs at many stations.

nickpick at extreme levels of nit-pickery

For the 1988 Docklands concert of Jean Michel Jarre the NLL ran 4 car
trains of both 2x2EPB and 4EPB.

Best fact ever!

tom

--
And the future is certain, give us time to work it out

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, sweek wrote (quoting ATO):

Initially, TfL may substitute the current trains running the Euston -
Watford service (aged Class 313 and Class 508 trains) with some
(modified) stock cascaded from the Victoria line after that line receives
its new trains.

Tube trains running into Euston mainline station? Seriously? Who would
drive them, and how would the line be signalled and electrified?


'sweek' should have put Queens Park where he had Euston.

The Bakerloo line extension to Watford Junction is from Harrow and
Wealdstone, with fewer trains reversing at Queens Park. South of Queens Park
the existing Euston DC line service will be diverted through Primrose Hill
to form a NLR service to Stratford.

Paul

In message , asdf
writes

I don't think the ATO thing is an issue - Victoria Line trains are
already capable of being driven manually, and can be equipped with
tripcocks for when they need to travel over other lines (e.g. to reach
the works at Acton). Presumably they would just need to be equipped
with conventional power/brake handles, and have a trailer removed to
reduce them to 7 cars.

There were a number of units transferred to the Victoria a few years ago
(72 stock from the Northern?) which were only fitted with ATO in the
outer cabs. the inner cabs are not currently in normal use but are
considered quite suitable with minor mods for enhancing the Bakerloo
line.

I'm sure I've read this being the proposed way forward in Underground
News in the past year or so.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On 13 Jul, 12:27, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message

h.li...

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, sweek wrote (quoting ATO):

Initially, TfL may substitute the current trains running the Euston -
Watford service (aged Class 313 and Class 508 trains) with some
(modified) stock cascaded from the Victoria line after that line receives
its new trains.

Tube trains running into Euston mainline station? Seriously? Who would
drive them, and how would the line be signalled and electrified?

'sweek' should have put Queens Park where he had Euston.

The Bakerloo line extension to Watford Junction is from Harrow and
Wealdstone, with fewer trains reversing at Queens Park. South of Queens Park
the existing Euston DC line service will be diverted through Primrose Hill
to form a NLR service to Stratford.

Paul

It's not my own text but a quote, but in essence it's right. It is the
stock that is qurrently running the Euston - Watford services that
would be replaced by Vic. stock, it just wouldn't run on that whole
route anymore.

"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote

There were a number of units transferred to the Victoria a few years ago
(72 stock from the Northern?) which were only fitted with ATO in the
outer cabs.

AIUI they did not fit ATO into any of the cabs transferred from the
Northern, but remarshalled the trains so they would have ex-Vic cabs at the
outer ends and ex-Northern cabs in the middle.

Peter