On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:26:49 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

Boltar wrote:
On 6 Jul, 11:16, Adrian wrote:
shrug
How often do bus engines require full power? Not very.

Agreed but when they do need it they really need it. The steep hills
around mill hill, highgate , hampstead and southgate spring to mind.

Even if the buses were unsuitable for those areas, that's only about a dozen
routes. You wouldn't say that double deckers will never work in London
because of the Rotherhithe Tunnel.


True, as double deckers have been used in it, haven't they?

In article . com,
Boltar wrote:
On 6 Jul, 11:05, Adrian wrote:
Don't forget that the engine is basically just being used as a generator,
therefore can run at optimum revs for the specific output - there's no
requirement for any kind of useful rev range or torque curve.

True , and I suppose that will mitigate it somewhat. However
ultimately that engine will produce less power than a normal bus
engine so when relying on the engine alone its going to be slower
compared to the normal engine running at optimum gearing.

Yes, but busses (especially in London) are very stop-start; if the engine
is busy recharging the battery when at a bus stop and/or red lights, it will
mitigate that to some extent.

Plus the regenerative braking, of course.

Exactly how far those effects help is something they will find out
as part of the trial, I guess.

--
Shenanigans! Shenanigans! Best of 3!
-- Flash

I am no bus crank but am interested in this alternative technology
stuff.

Can anyone supply me with list of vehicle identities - registration
number or whatever - so I can identify them - or do the buses have
huge adverts on them announcing they are hybrids ?

Bear in mind that since I am incapable of telling one makers bus type
from another, anorak answers like ''hyrbids have one extra rivet on
the fourth panel below the third grommet on the offside when compared
to a standard model'' are completely useless as I won't actually know
which types to look at.

I'm sure this gen is on the web somewhere, I'm just not familiar
enough to pick it out.

--
Nick

"Boltar" wrote in message
ups.com
On 6 Jul, 09:56, Adrian wrote:
February
2006.http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/3680.aspx

From the article:

"The battery pack is kept at optimum power by a 1.9 litre diesel Euro
IV engine. In other words, an engine which would normally be found in
a family car keeps the battery"

1.9 sounds a bit too small. I'm sure in start and stop traffic it
might be ok but ultimately the energy all comes from that engine.
Seems to me the bus would be hopeless for any long or even middle
distance runs especially if any hills are involved, since once the
battery has been used up its relying on the engine only and a 10 ton
(probably more) bus won't be going anywhere fast with an engine that
size.

I was in Seattle a couple of months ago and noticed that all their bendy
buses proudly claim to be hybrids. The buses certainly didn't look new,
so presumably have older technology than the London buses, and Seattle
is a lot more hilly than central London. They seemed to get up the hills
all right, though I've no idea what size diesel engines they have.

Seattle has another pro-public transport featu buses are free in the
central area, so encouraging people to park their cars and then move
around by bus (I doubt that many people get into town other than by
car).

Ken Wheatley wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:26:49 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

Boltar wrote:
On 6 Jul, 11:16, Adrian wrote:
shrug
How often do bus engines require full power? Not very.

Agreed but when they do need it they really need it. The steep
hills around mill hill, highgate , hampstead and southgate spring
to mind.

Even if the buses were unsuitable for those areas, that's only about
a dozen routes. You wouldn't say that double deckers will never work
in London because of the Rotherhithe Tunnel.


True, as double deckers have been used in it, haven't they?

I doubt it... a normal single decker won't fit.

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:28:38 -0700, Boltar
wrote:

On 6 Jul, 16:01, James Farrar wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 03:13:00 -0700, Boltar
wrote:

When it returns to London it will operate on the route between Wood
Green and London Bridge.

And that is the number what?

http://just****inggoogleit.com/

Thanks for the useful input to the discussion.

My pleasure.

In message , John Rowland
writes

Rotherhithe tunnel

I doubt it... a normal single decker won't fit.

The double-deck route 82 used to run through the tunnel until the 1960s.
Here's one just emerging from the northern exit:

http://www.busesatwork.co.uk/051-100...82_RTL1613.jpg

I have a feeling that the roadway through the tunnel was lower in those
days (as it was in the Blackwall tunnel), giving better height clearance
at the expense of (even) narrower width. Apparently buses on route 82
were equipped with specially reinforced tyres to mitigate the constant
rubbing on the kerb while going through the tunnel.
--
Paul Terry

In message . com, D7666
writes

Can anyone supply me with list of vehicle identities - registration
number or whatever - so I can identify them - or do the buses have
huge adverts on them announcing they are hybrids ?

They are branded in quite large letters front and rear:

http://www.busandcoach.com/featureStory.aspx?id=640

--
Paul Terry

In message , Recliner
writes

I was in Seattle a couple of months ago and noticed that all their bendy
buses proudly claim to be hybrids. The buses certainly didn't look new,
so presumably have older technology than the London buses, and Seattle
is a lot more hilly than central London. They seemed to get up the hills
all right, though I've no idea what size diesel engines they have.

Seattle's dual-mode Breda buses date back to 1989, but were not very
reliable and have been phased out to be replaced by a system developed
by General Motors, in which the diesel engine powers the wheels as well
as charging the battery. Unfortunately, they haven't delivered the
expected reductions in diesel usage:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transp...9_metro13.html
--
Paul Terry

"Paul Terry" wrote in message

In message , Recliner
writes

I was in Seattle a couple of months ago and noticed that all their
bendy buses proudly claim to be hybrids. The buses certainly didn't
look new, so presumably have older technology than the London buses,
and Seattle is a lot more hilly than central London. They seemed to
get up the hills all right, though I've no idea what size diesel
engines they have.

Seattle's dual-mode Breda buses date back to 1989, but were not very
reliable and have been phased out to be replaced by a system developed
by General Motors, in which the diesel engine powers the wheels as
well as charging the battery. Unfortunately, they haven't delivered
the expected reductions in diesel usage:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transp...9_metro13.html

Yes, they certainly have a lusty diesel roar as they climb the Seattle
hills. I wouldn't have guessed they were hybrids if the signs hadn't
said they were.

I suppose this is yet another episode of hybrid vehicles not achieving
the economy that they claim.