"Mr Thant" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 15, 12:24 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
I don't think the NR fares manual supports your view about 'London
Terminals' being a hypothetical one big station, though, unless you are
actually crossing London.

His comment was Acton Mainline to Clapham Junction, so when he
said "London Terminals" I don't think he meant to invoke the ticket
destination.

That 3rd line 'subject to the route of the rail journey being
undertaken'
seems a bit vague but must imply the routeing guide?

Presumably that's a reference to going to the obvious terminal(s) for
your starting point, using either the shortest route rule or the maps.
The maps for Clapham Junction to London appear to allow Victoria,
Vauxhall and Waterloo direct; then Charing Cross and London Bridge via
Waterloo; and Cannon Street, City Thameslink and Blackfriars via
Waterloo and LB.

Or if we're going all Clive Feather, CJ to LB is permitted via Tulse
Hill, or Croydon, or Croydon and Bromley, or Streatham, Epsom and
Croydon, and so on. The Journey Planner will accept via Croydon but
not Epsom.

AIUI since London Zonal Fares came in we have to tear up the Routeing Guide
for journeys (perhaps excluding season tickets) for journeys between two
stations in Greater London (again, except perhaps where the route involves
going out of the London Travelcard zones.

In the specific case of Acton Main Line (Zone 3) to Clapham Junction (Zone
2), possible routes include:

Paddington - LUL - Victoria (or other routes via Central London). A ticket
charged at the 3 zone plus LUL rate would be required, as you're going into
Zone 1 as well as using LUL.

Ealing Broadway - LUL - Kensington Olympia or West Brompton . This would be
cheaper, involving only Zones 2 and 3, including LUL.

If instead you started off by walking to Acton Central (it's not that far,
and Main Line has a rubbish train service) you could travel on National rail
the whole way. Although Acton Central and Clapham Junction are both in Zone
2, going via Willesden Junction involves straying into Zone 3, so youll need
a ticket charged for Zones 2 and 3, but not including LUL. Or you could
change at Richmond, though this would be more expensive, as you'd stray into
Zone 4.

I'm now not sure which is more complicated, the Routeing Guide or London
Zonal Fares.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...onalFares.html

Peter

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

AIUI since London Zonal Fares came in we have to tear up the Routeing
Guide
for journeys (perhaps excluding season tickets) for journeys between two
stations in Greater London (again, except perhaps where the route involves
going out of the London Travelcard zones.

In the specific case of Acton Main Line (Zone 3) to Clapham Junction (Zone
2), possible routes include:

Paddington - LUL - Victoria (or other routes via Central London). A ticket
charged at the 3 zone plus LUL rate would be required, as you're going
into
Zone 1 as well as using LUL.

Ealing Broadway - LUL - Kensington Olympia or West Brompton . This would
be
cheaper, involving only Zones 2 and 3, including LUL.

If instead you started off by walking to Acton Central (it's not that far,
and Main Line has a rubbish train service) you could travel on National
rail
the whole way. Although Acton Central and Clapham Junction are both in
Zone
2, going via Willesden Junction involves straying into Zone 3, so youll
need
a ticket charged for Zones 2 and 3, but not including LUL. Or you could
change at Richmond, though this would be more expensive, as you'd stray
into
Zone 4.

I'm now not sure which is more complicated, the Routeing Guide or London
Zonal Fares.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...onalFares.html


What happens with NR London fares now if you want to go between
diametrically opposed outer zone stations - are you deemed to need an LU leg
through the middle and automatically charged accordingly?

Paul

"Paul Scott" wrote
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...onalFares.html


What happens with NR London fares now if you want to go between
diametrically opposed outer zone stations - are you deemed to need an LU
leg
through the middle and automatically charged accordingly?

I think that must be the case, unless you can route via the NLL and ask for
a ticket charged accordingly.
Slade Green to Upminster via Lewisham, Peckham Rye, West Norwood, Clapham
Junction, Willesden junction, Gospel Oak, and Barking, anyone? That doesn't
even touch Zone 1.

Peter

On Jul 15, 4:07 pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:
I think that must be the case, unless you can route via the NLL and ask for
a ticket charged accordingly.

There only appears to be one fare between any two points, charged
according to the obvious/logical/likely/whatever route. You can still
go any route you like (RG permitting), including outside the zones
you've "paid for". Different prices for different routes would be
incompatible with Oyster, which is what the scheme is a precursor to.

(Also, Silverlink Metro never joined the zonal scheme, so fares
involving them oftern make no sense - see an old thread I posted about
it)

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 15:31:23 +0100, Peter Masson wrote:

AIUI since London Zonal Fares came in we have to tear up the Routeing Guide
for journeys (perhaps excluding season tickets) for journeys between two
stations in Greater London (again, except perhaps where the route involves
going out of the London Travelcard zones.

I don't believe so. Tickets are still issued as point-to-point fares,
and there's nothing in the Conditions of Carriage to suggest that the
RG no longer applies. The zonal fares system just explains how tickets
are priced "behind the scenes", but doesn't place any zonal
restrictions on the route you may take.

OTOH, the system may change at some point so that fares within the
zones are issued as true zonal fares (such as "Origin to U2345").
If/when that happens, you would then be restricted to passing through
just the zones on the ticket.