"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

You may consider these things to be a bug but I assume you have decent
vision and hearing. For those who do not or who may not be familiar with
the LU system then these messages are a source of important confirmatory
information and reassurance.

A high proportion of whom presumably will be visitors who don't even
speak English.

But no matter. So long as you shout at them loud enough in English they're
bound to understand. The Basil Fawlty approach.

Especialy all those non-English speaking foreign vistors who choose to
travel during the rush hour when the trains are packed out with commuters.

They mustn't be inconvenienced at any cost.


If you're bugged by the LU announcements then I can't imagine how you'll
react to the I-Bus system on the bus network.


Presumably that's another monopoly which will give the operators as much
scope to patronise their bread and butter as does the London Underground.

Because let's face it chum you'd need to be a simpleton to start with,
to willingly pay £20 a week for the privilidge of being treated like
one for two hours every day.



michael adams

....






--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

michael adams wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
You may consider these things to be a bug but I assume you have decent
vision and hearing. For those who do not or who may not be familiar with
the LU system then these messages are a source of important confirmatory
information and reassurance.

A high proportion of whom presumably will be visitors who don't even
speak English.

There are lots of visitors who do speak English. Some of them post on
this group asking for directions. Many more do not. Anyway, you don't
need much of a command of the English language to find the station name
being mentioned useful.

They mustn't be inconvenienced at any cost.

They're already inconvenienced.

Because let's face it chum you'd need to be a simpleton to start with,
to willingly pay £20 a week for the privilidge of being treated like
one for two hours every day.

Tell us how you really feel.
--
Michael Hoffman

Sorry but trains can and do terminate at North Greenwich, West Ham and
Stratford heading east on the Jubilee Line. Similarly on the Northern
Line trains can and do terminate at Euston, Charing Cross, Kennington,
Tooting Broadway and Morden. Some of these are only used on rare
occasions but announcements and displays are needed to cover this.

Well, I use Jubilee frequently and only once the train terminated at
North Greenwich (without any warnings before actually stopping at N.
Greenwich) - everything else continued to Stratford. As for
Northern, I was talking only about the southbound part south of
Kennington - where once again I've yet to catch any train going NOT to
Morden (but I use Northern much less frequently, so I'm probably
wrong).

Anyway, the point is that many other mass transit systems do not
announce the destination if the destination is the end of the line and
most trains usually go there. The announcements only made when the
destination is unusual. LUL for some reason uses more railway-like
announcements, which is understandable on some lines, but rather
strange on others.


If you're bugged by the LU announcements then I can't imagine how you'll
react to the I-Bus system on the bus network.

I was just in the mood for a quick rant. Much better now, thank
you :-)
And don't tell me that you think that all those excessive "security"
or "important" announcements are actually needed.

A high proportion of whom presumably will be visitors who don't even
speak English.

The majority of the names of places/destinations sound the same in all
languages.


Presumably that's another monopoly which will give the operators as much
scope to patronise their bread and butter as does the London Underground.

Paranoid much?

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:53:53 -0700, alex_t
wrote:


Sorry but trains can and do terminate at North Greenwich, West Ham and
Stratford heading east on the Jubilee Line. Similarly on the Northern
Line trains can and do terminate at Euston, Charing Cross, Kennington,
Tooting Broadway and Morden. Some of these are only used on rare
occasions but announcements and displays are needed to cover this.

Well, I use Jubilee frequently and only once the train terminated at
North Greenwich (without any warnings before actually stopping at N.
Greenwich) - everything else continued to Stratford. As for
Northern, I was talking only about the southbound part south of
Kennington - where once again I've yet to catch any train going NOT to
Morden (but I use Northern much less frequently, so I'm probably
wrong).

Anyway, the point is that many other mass transit systems do not
announce the destination if the destination is the end of the line and
most trains usually go there. The announcements only made when the
destination is unusual. LUL for some reason uses more railway-like
announcements, which is understandable on some lines, but rather
strange on others.

Many lines on other networks are end to end and have no overlapping
service patterns or branches. London has those in abundance and
therefore information has to be provided. Certain other networks do make
announcements about destinations, interchanges and safety announcements
- Hong Kong MTR makes them in three languages for every stop including
telling you what side the platform will be on at the next stop.
Personally I find that very helpful as a visitor.

If you're bugged by the LU announcements then I can't imagine how you'll
react to the I-Bus system on the bus network.

I was just in the mood for a quick rant. Much better now, thank
you :-)

So glad to be of service.

And don't tell me that you think that all those excessive "security"
or "important" announcements are actually needed.

one of the biggest gripes about the system is lack of information - this
has been proven time and again via market research and customer
complaints. A number of initiatives like "Good Service" and the line
boards showing service status and the announcements were brought in
under Tim O'Toole's instruction.

I'll be the first to say it is not always perfect when an incident has
happened and displays and announcements haven't caught up. I get
particularly irritated to be told "good service" when the DMI shows 8
minutes for a train! However I do really like the service status boards
and I will always check them before going through the gates.

It is recognised that practice on announcements and messages at some
parts of the network is wrong and excessive. Work is being done to give
sensible guidelines to staff to get the right frequency and tone of
messages - give it some time and I'm sure things will improve.

I think people are forgetting that the security situation and assessment
of risk to the tube network means that certain things *have* to be said.
You only need to look at the impact of security alerts on the service
just because people have left bags, boxes and other items lying around.
The fact people leave them behind warrants a reminder! The "stand
behind the yellow line" announcements are because the platform train
interface is an area of high safety risk and people do not properly
understand what sorts of accidents can happen if they get too close to
the edge of the platform / close to a moving train. These announcements
are not given lightly - they are part of ensuring the safety and
security of the system.

I'm sure I will now get lambasted for "defending" what everyone seems to
hate.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:40:14 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

These announcements
are not given lightly - they are part of ensuring the safety and
security of the system.

The problem with them is that, because there are too many of them,
they become background noise, and people do not pay attention to them.
IMO, the poster campaigns are far more effective at getting attention
regarding the matters concerned.

As for the "good service" business, I'd rather the term "normal
service" was used, but they don't do any harm, and advising passengers
on what's going on around the network probably is useful so long as it
isn't done too much. It's helped me before. That said, the most
useful manifestation of this information is the plasma screens at the
entrance to stations where one can see problems at a glance.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On 10 Jul, 21:10, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
As for the "good service" business, I'd rather the term "normal
service" was used, but they don't do any harm, and advising passengers
on what's going on around the network probably is useful so long as it
isn't done too much. It's helped me before. That said, the most
useful manifestation of this information is the plasma screens at the
entrance to stations where one can see problems at a glance.

"there is a normal service on the Northern line; there is a good
service on all other lines", etc.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Jul 10, 9:10 pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:40:14 +0100, Paul Corfield

wrote:
These announcements
are not given lightly - they are part of ensuring the safety and
security of the system.

The problem with them is that, because there are too many of them,
they become background noise, and people do not pay attention to them.
IMO, the poster campaigns are far more effective at getting attention
regarding the matters concerned.

As for the "good service" business, I'd rather the term "normal
service" was used, but they don't do any harm, and advising passengers
on what's going on around the network probably is useful so long as it
isn't done too much. It's helped me before. That said, the most
useful manifestation of this information is the plasma screens at the
entrance to stations where one can see problems at a glance.



They did use "normal service" for a while. Every time I heard that
there was a normal service on all lines I thought "So, Circle line not
running, signal failure on the Jubilee ..." etc etc. Good is
definitely not normal.

Boltar wrote:
Another irritation is the constant use of "customer" instead of passenger.

The classic is the "... line has been part suspended due to a *customer*
under a train ...". It is good to see the customer relationship being
valued even in such trying circumstances.

At Kings Cross many moons ago, I saw a notice that avoided "customer"
but clearly wished to draw a clear line between 'us and them';

"The escalator is out of service due to action by a fellow passenger".

That'll be one of our lot then. We should hang our heads in shame.

ESB

The trouble is that the preambles aren't true. If you hear "Your
attention please; here is a special announcement ..." you can
guarantee that there will be absolutely nothing special about the
announcement.

On the Jubilee Line, every so often the in-car displays flash
"IMPORTANT" several times (or a similar word, I forget exactly). This
is followed by a message telling you to take your bags with you when
you get off the train.

On the Toronto subway (underground) these days, the TTC has a regular
program of stupid pre-recorded announcements in the stations. Show your
student ID card when paying student fares! Don't try to board a train
after the door-closing chime! On weekends a Day Pass can be shared!
No smoking on the TTC! Take all your belongings with you when you leave
the train! (The actual wording in each case is significantly longer.)

They always play them in pairs -- and, lately, each pair of stupid
announcements is preceded by the same attention-getting melody.

On other other hand, when they actually have something to announce that
you need to hear, i.e. about a service problem, (1) they just announce it
without the melody, and (2) half the time you can't make out what they're
saying.
--
Mark Brader | "What a strange field. Studying beings instead of mathematics.
Toronto | Could lead to recursive problems in logic."
| -- Robert L. Forward (The Flight of the Dragonfly)

My text in this article is in the public domain.