allan tracy wrote:

New Labour has given the go ahead, so far in over ten years, to
precisely nothing.

Ah - but think of all the schemes that they've announced (several times)
will go ahead (at some unspecified point) in the future. ;-)

On Jul 21, 5:55 pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
allan tracy wrote:

New Labour has given the go ahead, so far in over ten years, to
precisely nothing.

Ah - but think of all the schemes that they've announced (several times)
will go ahead (at some unspecified point) in the future. ;-)

You are of course referring to Ruth Kelly's special barbed wire seats?

On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 09:49:13 -0700, allan tracy wrote:
New Labour does not do nuts and bolts they have a feminised Guardian
reading agenda - they're just not interested.

Whenever I read the opinion pages of the Guardian, it is very much in
favour of public transport investment. Perhaps you're thinking of the
Daily Mail, which regrettably has far more influence over all the
political parties.

A

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at 11:33:29 on
Sat, 21 Jul 2007, tim..... remarked:
"Thameslink is going to be approved,"

so that will make it almost 20 years late then

It's been "approved" several times over. All it needs now is
funding. If the OP means that "funding has been allocated", then
that's a useful step, but quite disjoint from the approval process.

There will be no funding approval until the SOFA is published, surely?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Jul 21, 6:17 pm, Anonymouse wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 09:49:13 -0700, allan tracy wrote:
New Labour does not do nuts and bolts they have a feminised Guardian
reading agenda - they're just not interested.

Whenever I read the opinion pages of the Guardian, it is very much in
favour of public transport investment. Perhaps you're thinking of the
Daily Mail, which regrettably has far more influence over all the
political parties.


Every newspaper, every party and everyone are in favour of more
investment in public transport, it's converting it into action that
matters.

This Labour government, like those before it, shows a bit too much
interest in how we spend National wealth and too little interest in
where that wealth may come from. This results in too much emphasis on
public spending and too little on public investment.

One of my old university lecturers once described to me the difference
between socialism and capitalism. He reckoned that socialism is
arguing about who gets what off the apple tree whereas capitalism is
arguing about how we can grow more trees.

On Jul 21, 2:45 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Quote
"Thameslink is going to be approved,"

Is it just me or do the Thameslink announcements always completely miss the
point? Nearly every statement made seems to include 'between Brighton and
Bedford' whereas the improvements cover a much wider area than the current
line...

Yes and no.

As I understand it now the aim of TL3000 is still a much wider area,
but the there is a sort of ''step 1'' that involves 12car platforms
and trains at Blackfriars and Farringdon (and hence Moorgate closure)
and selected stations north thereof - but does not for the time being
involve links with the GN route or with further routes south of the
Thames towards the Sussex coast.

I have picked up a lot of vibes over the last week - or rather the
amplitude of the vibes have increased substantially - that FCC/TL are
to gain over the next 2-3 years *both* the existing SN 377/2 and SET
375/6 fleets (15+30=45 units) - with AC activated on the latter -
for this ''step 1''.

Several different cascade scenarios have been suggested, including how
the both those fleets are to be released, but I have no idea which one
might be right, so for now I will refrain from comment. These
scenarios do allow for covering the existing 377/2 duties - and
375/6s.

What is known is that dual voltage Electrostars are already cleared
over the existing TL route - and apart from 319s they are the only
type that is so cleared.

--
Nick

On Jul 21, 7:57 pm, allan tracy wrote:

Every newspaper, every party and everyone are in favour of more
investment in public transport, it's converting it into action that
matters.

This Labour government, like those before it, shows a bit too much
interest in how we spend National wealth and too little interest in
where that wealth may come from. This results in too much emphasis on
public spending and too little on public investment.

One of my old university lecturers once described to me the difference
between socialism and capitalism. He reckoned that socialism is
arguing about who gets what off the apple tree whereas capitalism is
arguing about how we can grow more trees.

The DfT's prebuttling of HLOS (aka Spinning) continues in the Sunday
Times - cheers for the residents of Reading - can the Crossrail
extension be far behind? (hold not your breath).
Note the clever insertion of an intention to gouge passengers even
further on off peak fares. The DfT giveth and the Treasury taketh
away.

Quote
From The Sunday Times
July 22, 2007
Green light for Thameslink 2000
Dominic O'Connell Sunday Times
TRANSPORT ministers will this week give the go-ahead to the first
phase of the long-delayed Thameslink 2000 project, a scheme that
should boost rail capacity in London in time for the 2012 Olympics.
But in statements on rail policy expected on Tuesday, ministers may
also spark controversy by proposing the deregulation of "saver" fares,
leading to more expensive journeys for millions of rail passengers.
The first of the two statements will set out spending priorities up to
2014. The High Level Output Statement is likely to include Thameslink
2000, some 1,300 new carriages, the redevelopment of Birmingham New
Street and Reading stations, and spending on signalling systems to
bring them up to the latest European standards.
It is also likely to give guidance on the amount of funding that will
be provided to Network Rail to run the system over the period.
The second statement, a 30-year vision for the network, is expected to
dash hopes of a commitment to a new north-south high-speed line.
Ministers are likely to say the plan needs more study to evaluate the
benefits.
A Department for Transport source said: "If there were to be such a
thing it would need to prove its worth to ministers both in cost and
environ-mental terms. It would need to make a strong argument."
Nor is there expected to be any commitment to Crossrail, the east-west
London route, with no announcement expected before the comprehensive
spending review in October.
Rail industry sources said on Friday that ministers were considering
whether to proceed with a plan to deregulate saver fares cheap tickets
bought well in advance of travel. On most routes, increases in saver
fares are not allowed to be greater than inflation plus 1%.
Deregulation would mean faster price increases. Rail companies are
raising unregulated fares at about inflation plus 3% or more.
One train company boss said: "If they go ahead with it, it will create
a major row, particularly as rail passengers are already being hit
with big increases on other fares. It would be a big step, and a
political hot potato."
The go-ahead for the Thameslink 2000 project will as its name suggests
bring to an end years of wrangling over its future. The scheme, first
mooted before the privatisation of British Rail, will bring a big
increase in capacity on the Thameslink route, which runs from north to
south through the capital, linking Bedford and Brighton. Longer trains
will run more often, with peak frequency rising from eight trains an
hour to 24.
But only the northern half of the project will be given the go-ahead,
because it can be completed in time for the Olympics. The decision
will also avoid redevelopment around Borough market and Southwark
cathedral.
Thameslink 2000 has a key role to play in the Olympic transport plan
because it calls at St Pancras, from which high-speed shuttles will
run to the games village at Stratford.
Plans for 1,000 new carriages have already been announced. The
additional 300 included in this week's statement are understood to
come largely from the extra rolling stock needed for the Thameslink
expansion.
The redevelopment of Birmingham and Reading stations will address two
bottlenecks on the network. Reading will receive an extra platform,
while Birmingham will be remodelled.
Unquote

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:33:29 on Sat, 21
Jul 2007, tim..... remarked:
"Thameslink is going to be approved,"

so that will make it almost 20 years late then

It's been "approved" several times over. All it needs now is funding.

I thought that it had that.

The last thing that stopped it was a Planning refusal.

tim

"D7666" wrote in message
oups.com...

As I understand it now the aim of TL3000 is still a much wider area,
but the there is a sort of ''step 1'' that involves 12car platforms
and trains at Blackfriars and Farringdon (and hence Moorgate closure)
and selected stations north thereof - but does not for the time being
involve links with the GN route or with further routes south of the
Thames towards the Sussex coast.

I have picked up a lot of vibes over the last week - or rather the
amplitude of the vibes have increased substantially - that FCC/TL are
to gain over the next 2-3 years *both* the existing SN 377/2 and SET
375/6 fleets (15+30=45 units) - with AC activated on the latter -
for this ''step 1''.

Several different cascade scenarios have been suggested, including how
the both those fleets are to be released, but I have no idea which one
might be right, so for now I will refrain from comment. These
scenarios do allow for covering the existing 377/2 duties - and
375/6s.

Surely the phase 1 requirement to 'join' some of the services so that the
Blackfriars and Farringdon alterations are done without any terminating
trains getting in the way, but surely joining existing routes, if done in a
balanced fashion, doesn't actually require a 'cascade' [1] because the
routes will only take the required number of units out of the Southern and
Southeastern fleets, ie it'll be more of a simple transfer?

[1] using cascade in the sense that the transfer of units will lead to new
replacements somewhere.

Paul

"tim....." wrote in message
...

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:33:29 on Sat, 21
Jul 2007, tim..... remarked:
"Thameslink is going to be approved,"

so that will make it almost 20 years late then

It's been "approved" several times over. All it needs now is funding.

I thought that it had that.

The last thing that stopped it was a Planning refusal.


The only current DfT funding is £30M to keep the design team ticking over
until the real funds become available...

Paul