In article . com,
() wrote:

As I understand it - and wrote in RBI last week (with no follow-up
calls from anyone in the industry to tell me I'm wrong.. so I assume
it's correct) the recently announced order of 377s by/for Southern
will go to FCC. DfT Rail has spotted that there are several 442's
still not claimed under the plans for Gatwick Express / Southern to
merge and has told Southern to use them instead.

(remember in all this Rail Minister Tom Harris repeatedly tells the
press that the DfT doesn't tell TOCs how many trains they can have
etc. etc.)

From the closure of Blackfriars terminal platforms for rebuilding on
the other side of the station Southeastern will have to run through
the Thameslink tunnel to a turn-back station north of London, but
DfT has still to decide where..
This will require dual voltage trains for the services - which are
likely to be the 377s mentioned - running in "plain vanilla livery"
for FCC and Southeastern... I've not heard any mention of ending the
Southern service to Watford although with these all being 4-car
diagrams releasing some of the sets with 375s (which have different
couplers) would enable a common 377 fleet to be available to
Southeastern/FCC. So it's quite a logical idea and one I'll ask
about.

I thought the point of the Southern 377s was to release the remaining
319s to FCC so they have the whole of that fleet?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...

From the closure of Blackfriars terminal platforms for rebuilding on
the other side of the station Southeastern will have to run through
the Thameslink tunnel to a turn-back station north of London, but
DfT has still to decide where..
This will require dual voltage trains for the services - which are
likely to be the 377s mentioned - running in "plain vanilla livery"
for FCC and Southeastern... I've not heard any mention of ending the
Southern service to Watford although with these all being 4-car
diagrams releasing some of the sets with 375s (which have different
couplers) would enable a common 377 fleet to be available to
Southeastern/FCC. So it's quite a logical idea and one I'll ask
about.

I thought the point of the Southern 377s was to release the remaining
319s to FCC so they have the whole of that fleet?


I think the current buy of 377s is just a means of cascading the remaining
319s to strengthen existing FCC services - and will happen with or without
Thameslink...

Paul

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...

From the closure of Blackfriars terminal platforms for
rebuilding on the other side of the station Southeastern will have
to run through the Thameslink tunnel to a turn-back station north
of London, but DfT has still to decide where..
This will require dual voltage trains for the services - which
are likely to be the 377s mentioned - running in "plain vanilla
livery" for FCC and Southeastern... I've not heard any mention of
ending the Southern service to Watford although with these all
being 4-car diagrams releasing some of the sets with 375s (which
have different couplers) would enable a common 377 fleet to be
available to Southeastern/FCC. So it's quite a logical idea and
one I'll ask about.

I thought the point of the Southern 377s was to release the
remaining 319s to FCC so they have the whole of that fleet?

I think the current buy of 377s is just a means of cascading the
remaining 319s to strengthen existing FCC services - and will
happen with or without Thameslink...

You seem to be confirming what I thought.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:36 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

As I understand it - and wrote in RBI last week (with no follow-up
calls from anyone in the industry to tell me I'm wrong.. so I assume
it's correct) the recently announced order of 377s by/for Southern
will go to FCC. DfT Rail has spotted that there are several 442's
still not claimed under the plans for Gatwick Express / Southern to
merge and has told Southern to use them instead.

(remember in all this Rail Minister Tom Harris repeatedly tells the
press that the DfT doesn't tell TOCs how many trains they can have
etc. etc.)

From the closure of Blackfriars terminal platforms for rebuilding on
the other side of the station Southeastern will have to run through
the Thameslink tunnel to a turn-back station north of London, but
DfT has still to decide where..
This will require dual voltage trains for the services - which are
likely to be the 377s mentioned - running in "plain vanilla livery"
for FCC and Southeastern... I've not heard any mention of ending the
Southern service to Watford although with these all being 4-car
diagrams releasing some of the sets with 375s (which have different
couplers) would enable a common 377 fleet to be available to
Southeastern/FCC. So it's quite a logical idea and one I'll ask
about.

I thought the point of the Southern 377s was to release the remaining
319s to FCC so they have the whole of that fleet?

See above... Southern will get extra 442s in place of the 377s.

In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:36 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

As I understand it - and wrote in RBI last week (with no
follow-up calls from anyone in the industry to tell me I'm wrong..
so I assume it's correct) the recently announced order of 377s
by/for Southern will go to FCC. DfT Rail has spotted that there
are several 442's still not claimed under the plans for Gatwick
Express / Southern to merge and has told Southern to use them
instead.

(remember in all this Rail Minister Tom Harris repeatedly tells
the press that the DfT doesn't tell TOCs how many trains they can
have etc. etc.)

From the closure of Blackfriars terminal platforms for
rebuilding on the other side of the station Southeastern will have
to run through the Thameslink tunnel to a turn-back station north
of London, but DfT has still to decide where..
This will require dual voltage trains for the services - which
are likely to be the 377s mentioned - running in "plain vanilla
livery" for FCC and Southeastern... I've not heard any mention of
ending the Southern service to Watford although with these all
being 4-cardiagrams releasing some of the sets with 375s (which
have different couplers) would enable a common 377 fleet to be
available to Southeastern/FCC. So it's quite a logical idea and
one I'll ask about.

I thought the point of the Southern 377s was to release the
remaining 319s to FCC so they have the whole of that fleet?

See above... Southern will get extra 442s in place of the 377s.

But FCC were only asking for the rest of the 319s. At least that what
Elaine Holt has said every time I seen, heard or read her on the subject.

What FCC services will the 377s be for? They won't be able to interwork
with anything else on their routes and presumably they or the 319s will
have to carry coupling adapters.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:57 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

As I understand it - and wrote in RBI last week (with no
follow-up calls from anyone in the industry to tell me I'm wrong..
so I assume it's correct) the recently announced order of 377s
by/for Southern will go to FCC. DfT Rail has spotted that there
are several 442's still not claimed under the plans for Gatwick
Express / Southern to merge and has told Southern to use them
instead.

(remember in all this Rail Minister Tom Harris repeatedly tells
the press that the DfT doesn't tell TOCs how many trains they can
have etc. etc.)

From the closure of Blackfriars terminal platforms for
rebuilding on the other side of the station Southeastern will have
to run through the Thameslink tunnel to a turn-back station north
of London, but DfT has still to decide where..
This will require dual voltage trains for the services - which
are likely to be the 377s mentioned - running in "plain vanilla
livery" for FCC and Southeastern... I've not heard any mention of
ending the Southern service to Watford although with these all
being 4-cardiagrams releasing some of the sets with 375s (which
have different couplers) would enable a common 377 fleet to be
available to Southeastern/FCC. So it's quite a logical idea and
one I'll ask about.

I thought the point of the Southern 377s was to release the
remaining 319s to FCC so they have the whole of that fleet?

See above... Southern will get extra 442s in place of the 377s.

But FCC were only asking for the rest of the 319s. At least that what
Elaine Holt has said every time I seen, heard or read her on the subject.

What FCC services will the 377s be for? They won't be able to interwork
with anything else on their routes and presumably they or the 319s will
have to carry coupling adapters.

Isn't that also answered in the post quoted above?

"From the closure of Blackfriars terminal platforms for rebuilding on
the other side of the station Southeastern will have to run through
the Thameslink tunnel to a turn-back station north of London, but DfT
has still to decide where..This will require dual voltage trains for
the services - which are likely to be the 377s mentioned - running in
"plain vanilla livery" for FCC and Southeastern."

In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote:

"From the closure of Blackfriars terminal platforms for rebuilding
on the other side of the station Southeastern will have to run through
the Thameslink tunnel to a turn-back station north of London, but
DfT has still to decide where..This will require dual voltage trains
for
the services - which are likely to be the 377s mentioned - running
in "plain vanilla livery" for FCC and Southeastern."

So, just a temporary use then?

--
Colin Rosenstiel