In message . com, Uncle
Dave writes
On Aug 21, 10:28 am, Uncle Dave wrote:

Ah, right, that's what I was wondering. OK, rather than top up on-
line I'll buy some credit at the ticket machine - I'm not expecting to
travel often enough to warrant auto top up.

In the event, I topped up online, but the options where you can
validate your top-up are limited and don't include buses. I chose the
underground at Waterloo which was where I arrived, went to the barrier
where the guy informed me that it probably wouldn't work and that the
barrier would open so I'd get charged for a journey. He was right so
I've now been charged for a journey I never made because I used the
bus.
I'm not quite sure what you did here. By saying "charged for a journey
I never made", do you mean you opened the barrier but didn't enter the
system and travel? If so, then nothing went wrong or "didn't work".
You can only collect on-line top ups when you make a Tube journey.
That might have been what the chap on the barrier meant but he should
really have explained it to you more fully (depending on what you said
to him).

In your circumstances, it would have been better not to top up online
but to do it at a machine at Waterloo, not enter the Tube system and
then go straight on to the bus.

I'm sure this works fine for millions of other people, but I think I
shall avoid it in future and pay as I go - it will probably work out
cheaper
No, National Rail journeys notwithstanding, Oyster should always be
cheaper if you do it properly.

and certainly easier!
Perhaps because the concept, the "way" in which Oyster works, it does
confuse people and you're not alone. If I gave any advice to anyone,
I'd suggest they load up a card at a machine, a ticket office or a
newsagent and take it from there.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Aug 23, 11:34 am, Uncle Dave wrote:
I chose the
underground at Waterloo which was where I arrived, went to the barrier
where the guy informed me that it probably wouldn't work and that the
barrier would open so I'd get charged for a journey. He was right so
I've now been charged for a journey I never made because I used the
bus.

We warned you that would happen. There's really not much reason for
anyone to buy credit online if you're starting your journey at a tube
station - just use your credit/debit card in a tube ticket machine.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Aug 23, 12:34 pm, Ian Jelf wrote:

Perhaps because the concept, the "way" in which Oyster works, it does
confuse people and you're not alone. If I gave any advice to anyone,
I'd suggest they load up a card at a machine, a ticket office or a
newsagent and take it from there.

I rang them and they're refunding the cost of the "ghost" journey so
at least I won't lose anything. As I usually only use the card when
coming back to the country and travelling via London, topping up on-
line is preferable as it's always possible that the machine won't be
working and the ticket office closed. Knowing my luck "it's always
possible that" is redundant in that statement ;-)

I'm glad it's not just me that they've confused - from the casual user
viewpoint the inconsistency of use between means of transport is
inexcusable. Maybe it's down to the system infrastructure, though why
validation should only be possible at certain points is beyond me. My
guess is it's probably a security issue - the functionality of the
devices appears to be the same.

The fact that you can't validate your top-up without making a journey
is poor design - either validation is a discrete function or it
isn't.

Cheers

David

On 21 aug, 00:21, Michael Hoffman wrote:

It's at the gateline. How did you get in/out without using it?

DLR is not gated. However, the reader is normally found at the start
of the Compulsory Ticket Area which is marked with a line, so this
should usually be easy to find.

Neil

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:20:24 -0700, Uncle Dave wrote:

I rang them and they're refunding the cost of the "ghost" journey so
at least I won't lose anything. As I usually only use the card when
coming back to the country and travelling via London, topping up on-
line is preferable as it's always possible that the machine won't be
working and the ticket office closed.

If the machine isn't working and the office is closed, how would you
be able to collect your online top-up without starting a Tube journey?

The fact that you can't validate your top-up without making a journey
is poor design - either validation is a discrete function or it
isn't.

I don't think it's poor design. Topping up online and then collecting
at a Tube station is completely pointless unless you're also making a
Tube journey. (The whole advantage of online top-up is you avoid
having to queue at the ticket machine/office when you reach the
station, which is lost if you've got to do so anyway to collect the
top-up.)

On Aug 23, 10:51 pm, asdf wrote:

I don't think it's poor design. Topping up online and then collecting
at a Tube station is completely pointless unless you're also making a
Tube journey. (The whole advantage of online top-up is you avoid
having to queue at the ticket machine/office when you reach the
station, which is lost if you've got to do so anyway to collect the
top-up.)

That's my point!

David

On Aug 23, 10:51 pm, asdf wrote:
The fact that you can't validate your top-up without making a journey
is poor design - either validation is a discrete function or it
isn't.

I don't think it's poor design. Topping up online and then collecting
at a Tube station is completely pointless unless you're also making a
Tube journey. (The whole advantage of online top-up is you avoid
having to queue at the ticket machine/office when you reach the
station, which is lost if you've got to do so anyway to collect the
top-up.)

The poor design element is that you can't validate on a bus, thereby
making validation actually an issue instead of the non-issue it ought
to be (yes, I know the excuses for this; however, it'd be trivially
easy to make bus-based readers connect to the base by GPRS every five
minutes to exchange relevant data with the central system).

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B wrote:

The poor design element is that you can't validate on a bus, thereby
making validation actually an issue instead of the non-issue it ought
to be (yes, I know the excuses for this; however, it'd be trivially
easy to make bus-based readers connect to the base by GPRS every five
minutes to exchange relevant data with the central system).

I think we have different definitions of "trivial."
--
Michael Hoffman

On 24 Aug, 11:31, Michael Hoffman wrote:
The poor design element is that you can't validate on a bus, thereby
making validation actually an issue instead of the non-issue it ought
to be (yes, I know the excuses for this; however, it'd be trivially
easy to make bus-based readers connect to the base by GPRS every five
minutes to exchange relevant data with the central system).

I think we have different definitions of "trivial."

TfL has a secure private network in place to link the fixed Oyster
readers to their central server. Companies have been able for many
years to provide their employees and their employees' devices with VPN
access over GPRS to their secure private networks. Integrating mobile
devices with electronic peripherals is more or less a matter of plug-
and-play.

I'm missing the 'non-trivial' element, here...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B wrote:
On 24 Aug, 11:31, Michael Hoffman wrote:
The poor design element is that you can't validate on a bus, thereby
making validation actually an issue instead of the non-issue it ought
to be (yes, I know the excuses for this; however, it'd be trivially
easy to make bus-based readers connect to the base by GPRS every five
minutes to exchange relevant data with the central system).
I think we have different definitions of "trivial."

TfL has a secure private network in place to link the fixed Oyster
readers to their central server. Companies have been able for many
years to provide their employees and their employees' devices with VPN
access over GPRS to their secure private networks. Integrating mobile
devices with electronic peripherals is more or less a matter of plug-
and-play.

I'm missing the 'non-trivial' element, here...

Yes, you are.

Even writing a specification for such a system detailed enough to be
implemented would not be trivial. I'd say that anything that involves
the deployment of new hardware and software across thousands of buses
will not be trivial. Almost-real-time wireless communication only adds
to the complexity.
--
Michael Hoffman