On 4 Sep, 20:42, MIG wrote:

Is the implication of these posts that Bob Crow is on holiday
somewhere? Were the TV pictures faked?

Oh no, they were real. I think he did a great job of putting his view
over on TV (not).

I wouldn't expect someone in that position to be popular, but I don't
think he realises just how unpopular he is! I'm a union member
(different union) and I'd never want somelike that in charge, unless I
was a workshy layabout trying to secure my job forever - at good pay -
so I could stick my finger up at my bosses!

I honestly think (and pray) most RMT members think the same way too.

Jonathan

Jonathan Morris wrote:

Just wait until the contractors start demanding more cash to finish
the construction on time, just as they did on the tube before the dome
opened.

This is mainly a failure of a business contract and is not down to unions.

We ask for this of course, because we give
contracts to the cheapest people - so people HAVE to lie to get the
work.

So we are to blame.

A union should protect the rights of workers obviously, but no union
can try and demand ridiculous promises or pay rises that are well
beyond inflation, or moan when people want to change the way we work.

What ridiculous promises or pay rises? The only people in this country who
get ridiculous pay rises are City stockbrokers, CEOs and MPs.

E.

Adrian wrote in uk.transport.london on 05 Sep 2007 09:31:41 GMT
45.131:

eastender ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

Crow knows this but continues to insist on the
impossible.

No, travelling faster than the speed of light is impossible. Protecting
pension rights isn't.

Which is why that was already done.

Doesn't appear that it has been (at the time of writing).

From the TSSA website, 3 September:-

"A final decision on further industrial action would be taken after a
meeting of Metronet pension trustees on Wednesday 5th September which
would be asked to confirm pension guarantees during administration.
The administrator and Metronet are also being asked for further
assurances on future pension benefits. If the guarantees are not
forthcoming, then TSSA members will strike for 72 hours from 6.00pm
next Monday."

http://www.tssa.org.uk/article-126.php3?id_article=3676

--
Dave Hillam
"Then old Nobodaddy aloft, Farted & belchd & coughd
And said: I love hanging & drawing & quartering
Every bit as well as war & slaughtering"

Dave Hillam ]) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Crow knows this but continues to insist on the
impossible.

No, travelling faster than the speed of light is impossible. Protecting
pension rights isn't.

Which is why that was already done.

Doesn't appear that it has been (at the time of writing).

From the TSSA website, 3 September:-

Hmmm. Somebody's telling porkies, because that's the same day that TfL were
saying...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/5877.aspx

A Transport for London spokesperson said:

"Both the Mayor and the direct employers, the Administrator and Metronet,
have given the trades unions clear written assurances that meet all of
their concerns, namely that there will be no job cuts or transfers as a
result of the collapse of Metronet and no loss of pensions now or at any
time in the future.

"London Underground, Metronet, the Administrator and ACAS all yesterday
asked Bob Crow what further assurances the RMT is seeking. There has been
no response.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/5887.aspx

Transport for London (TfL) today called on the RMT, TSSA and Unite trade
unions to call off strike action planned to start this evening at Metronet,
after the unions were given all the assurances they sought over the
suspension of staff transfers and employee reductions and that no employee
would lose any pension benefits, now or in future.

later in that press release

LU Chief Operating Officer, Mike Brown said: "The Mayor, as well as the
Administrator and management of Metronet, have given the trades unions
clear written assurances that meet all of their concerns, namely that there
will be no job cuts or transfers as a result of the collapse of Metronet
and no loss of pensions now or at any time in the future.

"We are still prepared to meet any reasonable requests and remain ready to
meet with the unions throughout today.

"It is clearly unreasonable to proceed with a strike when all of the trades
unions’ concerns have been met, and without the RMT informing us what they
seek to achieve.

Dave Hillam wrote:


From the TSSA website, 3 September:-

"A final decision on further industrial action would be taken after a
meeting of Metronet pension trustees on Wednesday 5th September which
would be asked to confirm pension guarantees during administration.
The administrator and Metronet are also being asked for further
assurances on future pension benefits. If the guarantees are not
forthcoming, then TSSA members will strike for 72 hours from 6.00pm
next Monday."

Precisely. The TSSA is a white collar union hardly known for militancy.

E.

On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 08:15:00AM -0700, Kev wrote:
On Sep 3, 3:53 pm, Barry Salter wrote:
"What our members want is to be transferred to a public-sector
organisation, and that is the only way in which their jobs and pensions
can be protected," Bob Crow said.
And given the thousands of workers who have had their pensions stolen
when their employers went into liquidation where was Bob Crowe then.

Presumably he was doing what his members told him to do. Given that his
members are train drivers, station staff etc, I doubt very much that
they told him to man the barricades and fight THE MAN in support of (eg)
textile workers.

--
David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information

Did you know that shotguns taste like candy canes? Put the barrel in
your mouth and pull the trigger for an extra blast of minty goodness!

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 245.131...

"We are still prepared to meet any reasonable requests and remain ready to
meet with the unions throughout today.

"It is clearly unreasonable to proceed with a strike when all of the
trades
unions’ concerns have been met, and without the RMT informing us what they
seek to achieve.

From the BBC:

"RMT general secretary Bob Crow said they now had the assurances, they had
been seeking, in writing from the employer.
He said the full pension scheme rescue was expected to be in place by
Thursday.

"This means that our members will now actually have their pensions restored
to them, which is rather different than promises from a man in an expensive
suit," he said.

Perhaps Metronet's negotiators should have worn cheap suits then Bob Crow
would have been happy to believe him...

Paul

On 5 Sep, 12:59, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"We are still prepared to meet any reasonable requests and remain ready to
meet with the unions throughout today.

"It is clearly unreasonable to proceed with a strike when all of the
trades
unions' concerns have been met, and without the RMT informing us what they
seek to achieve.

From the BBC:

"RMT general secretary Bob Crow said they now had the assurances, they had
been seeking, in writing from the employer.
He said the full pension scheme rescue was expected to be in place by
Thursday.

"This means that our members will now actually have their pensions restored
to them, which is rather different than promises from a man in an expensive
suit," he said.

Perhaps Metronet's negotiators should have worn cheap suits then Bob Crow
would have been happy to believe him...

;-)

Mild plug: I've written an article about the strike shenanigans:
http://www.thesharpener.net/2007/09/...his-strike-now

As it concludes - if I were a Metronet worker, I'd want to be in a
union that sought to *protect* my job, rather than one led by someone
who thinks Arthur Scargill was right to destroy his members' jobs in
the wider interests of sticking one to the government...


--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 5 Sep, 13:14, John B wrote:
On 5 Sep, 12:59, "Paul Scott" wrote:





"We are still prepared to meet any reasonable requests and remain ready to
meet with the unions throughout today.

"It is clearly unreasonable to proceed with a strike when all of the
trades
unions' concerns have been met, and without the RMT informing us what they
seek to achieve.

From the BBC:

"RMT general secretary Bob Crow said they now had the assurances, they had
been seeking, in writing from the employer.
He said the full pension scheme rescue was expected to be in place by
Thursday.

"This means that our members will now actually have their pensions restored
to them, which is rather different than promises from a man in an expensive
suit," he said.

Perhaps Metronet's negotiators should have worn cheap suits then Bob Crow
would have been happy to believe him...

;-)

Mild plug: I've written an article about the strike shenanigans:http://www.thesharpener.net/2007/09/...gainst-this-st...

As it concludes - if I were a Metronet worker, I'd want to be in a
union that sought to *protect* my job, rather than one led by someone
who thinks Arthur Scargill was right to destroy his members' jobs in
the wider interests of sticking one to the government...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would imagine that there are many disgruntled RMT members this
morning who are wondering why they lost a day's pay! I hope Bob Crow
is still smirking - but I doubt it. Tim O'Toole confirms that there
was absolutely nothing new on the table last night....so Crow stitched
up jhis members pay to flex union muscles....

On 5 Sep, 12:21, eastender wrote:

This is mainly a failure of a business contract and is not down to unions.

I'm talking about people agreeing to do work for a price, then waiting
until a critical time to demand more money. This happens far too
often, and for what it's worth, I wasn't only talking about unions
here.

So we are to blame.

Well, anyone who accepts this system is to blame. Competitive
tendering is flawed, but I certainly don't pretend to know what the
alternative would be. In many industries, it's clear that there are
backhanders and corruption (I know this first hand as my wife worked
for a contractor that paid quite a lot of money to someone in a very
large London council to win a contract).

Where I live, a bus company has just won a contract from another
operator to run local buses - and paid someone within the other bus
operator to get the application in advance (and then offered a nominal
amount above). From what I'm led to believe, both 'entries' were
virtually identical.

What ridiculous promises or pay rises? The only people in this country who
get ridiculous pay rises are City stockbrokers, CEOs and MPs.

This is what I always seem to see with some unions and their members;
jealousy. "He gets paid more than me.. I want the same". Sorry mate,
but if I want more money I ask for a pay review - or leave and get
another job. You can't demand double pay to 'catch up due to years of
pitiful pay rises' or demand less hours, more leave and so on. Well,
you can ask, but not strike until you get it. Vote with your feet and
things might change.

I'm not an MP, CEO or stockbroker - nor a premier league footballer.
However, while I might envy some of them, I am not going to demand
that I get paid the same because it's in some way unfair. I knew what
my job paid when I signed my contract. My union will step in if I am
wrongfully dismissed or something, not because I'm moaning that
someone in the city just got a £5m bonus.

Jonathan