"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:48:24 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Instead of trying to run extra Southern trains in amongst the (current)
Silverlink, why not run a Southern service in the path of a Silverlink to
Northampton, and run a corresponding Silverlink down the WLL? Clearly the
timetables would have to match up, and no doubt pax would scream about not
running to Euston, but presumably a high proportion go on from the
terminus
as is usual?

How easy would it be to install shoegear on a few Desiros and
portion-work it, splitting at Harrow and Wealdstone, I wonder? Main
issue would be it couldn't call at Bletchley if you were doing 8 to
London and 4 to the WLL, as the up slow is too short due to there
being junctions at both ends.

The 350s are already dual mode, have been tested down on the SWML, but have
had the shoe gear removed and stored IIRC, but were all delivered with it.
This means any arguments about lack of 377s doesn't wash.

I don't think replacing a SS out of Euston with a WLL train would be a
good idea, as it would necessarily bring a reduction in capacity, and
that wouldn't be popular with peak-time travellers as Silverlink is
(ssh) one of the few London commuter operators where there is not a
problem of severe overcrowding.

Agree - that will always be a problem, perhaps it could be an off peak
service only, when stock is more easily made available...

Paul

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007, Mizter T wrote:

On 15 Sep, 18:52, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote:

It would have been handy if, during the building of the Earl's Court
exhibition centre, they'd put in a new station on the WLL underneath
it, and bunged in a foot tunnel to Earl's Court. Still, i suppose West
Brompton - Earl's Court isn't too bad a walk; is it an out-of-station
interchange, as Marylebone/Baker Street?

Surely no need to be because West Brompton has both District line and
main line platforms,

But only on the Wimbledon branch of the District! This is fine if you want
to go towards Wimbledon, or to go east, but not so hot if you want to go
towards Richmond or Ealing. A WLL station linked to Earl's Court, or
out-of-station interchange from West Brompton to Earl's Court would allow
those journeys. Or, indeed, from West Brompton to West Kensington.

and is nearly as close to the Exhibition Centre as Earls Court station?

Yeah, I don't quite understand Tom's comments either - there's no need
for an out-of-station interchange (in terms of ticketing).

West Brompton is right next to the Earls Court Exhibition Centre anyway
- you can walk along Eardley Crescent to get to the front entrance. The
only conceivable time one would get the the District line to Earls Court
if one was heading for the exhibition centre would be if you'd just got
off a southbound WLL train, where there's a cross- platform change over
to the northbound District, and there was a District line train pulling
in. And only then if it was pouring it down.

I wasn't talking about going to the exhibition centre itself.

tom

--
Sapere aude!

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007, Paul Terry wrote:

In message , Tom Anderson
writes

It would have been handy if, during the building of the Earl's Court
exhibition centre, they'd put in a new staion on the WLL underneath it,
and bunged in a foot tunnel to Earl's Court.

The trouble is that few passenger services used that part of the WLL by
the 1930s, when the hall was built. The main service from Willesdon
Junction (the last remnant of the old "outer circle") terminated at
Earls Court, so would have bypassed a station built under the exhibition
hall. In any case, even that service terminated in 1940.

Even if there had been serious service on the line, the existence of
Kensington Olympia and West Brompton stations would have made it a very
hard proposition to sell.

tom

--
Sapere aude!

On 16 Sep, 12:50, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2007, Mizter T wrote:
On 15 Sep, 18:52, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote:

It would have been handy if, during the building of the Earl's Court
exhibition centre, they'd put in a new station on the WLL underneath
it, and bunged in a foot tunnel to Earl's Court. Still, i suppose West
Brompton - Earl's Court isn't too bad a walk; is it an out-of-station
interchange, as Marylebone/Baker Street?

Surely no need to be because West Brompton has both District line and
main line platforms,

But only on the Wimbledon branch of the District! This is fine if you want
to go towards Wimbledon, or to go east, but not so hot if you want to go
towards Richmond or Ealing. A WLL station linked to Earl's Court, or
out-of-station interchange from West Brompton to Earl's Court would allow
those journeys. Or, indeed, from West Brompton to West Kensington.

OK, understood! I've never heard of any out-of-station interchange
existing there - indeed I'm not sure there are any such out-of-station
interchanges defined for journeys that involve a change from National
Rail to LU (apart from Marylebone to Baker Street - but that's because
Chiltern Railways at Marylebone is in effett masquerading as an LU
line for ticketing purposes).

Such an out-of-station interchange could be implemented for Oyster
only once it is accepted on the WLL come November. Indeed it could be
implemented for through paper tickets as well I guess.

I suspect that anyone wanting to do this journey on a through ticket
would be directed back to Earls Court on the District and told to
change there.

Those heading for Gunnersbury, Kew Gardens or Richmond might be better
either heading down to Clapham Junction for SWT to Richmond or getting
on the NLL from Willesden Jn to go there direct.


and is nearly as close to the Exhibition Centre as Earls Court station?

Yeah, I don't quite understand Tom's comments either - there's no need
for an out-of-station interchange (in terms of ticketing).

West Brompton is right next to the Earls Court Exhibition Centre anyway
- you can walk along Eardley Crescent to get to the front entrance. The
only conceivable time one would get the the District line to Earls Court
if one was heading for the exhibition centre would be if you'd just got
off a southbound WLL train, where there's a cross- platform change over
to the northbound District, and there was a District line train pulling
in. And only then if it was pouring it down.

I wasn't talking about going to the exhibition centre itself.


Understood, apols for introducing confusion!

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:50:45 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:

It would have been handy if, during the building of the Earl's Court
exhibition centre, they'd put in a new station on the WLL underneath
it, and bunged in a foot tunnel to Earl's Court. Still, i suppose West
Brompton - Earl's Court isn't too bad a walk; is it an out-of-station
interchange, as Marylebone/Baker Street?

Surely no need to be because West Brompton has both District line and
main line platforms,

But only on the Wimbledon branch of the District! This is fine if you want
to go towards Wimbledon, or to go east, but not so hot if you want to go
towards Richmond or Ealing.

Or change onto the Piccadilly Line.

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:27:28 -0700, Mizter T wrote:

Thirdly and critically there's always the issue of paving and
conflicts. I think that trains from WCML slow lines to the WLL need to
cross the WCML fast lines on a flat junction, so any such moves block
up the fast lines.

They don't. There is a (very slow) diveunder.

Northbound ex-WLL trains do have to cross the southbound line towards
Euston, though.

On 16 Sep, 13:11, Mizter T wrote:
OK, understood! I've never heard of any out-of-station interchange
existing there - indeed I'm not sure there are any such out-of-station
interchanges defined for journeys that involve a change from National
Rail to LU (apart from Marylebone to Baker Street - but that's because
Chiltern Railways at Marylebone is in effett masquerading as an LU
line for ticketing purposes).

Tower Hill to Fenchurch St? Although C2C similarly masquerades as a LU
line, I guess.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On 16 Sep, 13:39, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:27:28 -0700, Mizter T wrote:
Thirdly and critically there's always the issue of paving and
conflicts. I think that trains from WCML slow lines to the WLL need to
cross the WCML fast lines on a flat junction, so any such moves block
up the fast lines.

They don't. There is a (very slow) diveunder.

Northbound ex-WLL trains do have to cross the southbound line towards
Euston, though.

Thanks. I've been on those Southern WLL trains a few times to and from
Watford, I just couldn't remember how it was routed in the Willesden
Jn area. Next time I'll keep my eyes open.

So there's still a conflict for trains coming off the WLL heading to
the WCML slow lines as they have to cross the WCML fast lines - unless
the Southern trains head north-west along the fast lines for some
distance before swapping to the slow lines (which would still creates
a conflict of course)?

On 16 Sep, 14:25, John B wrote:
On 16 Sep, 13:11, Mizter T wrote:

OK, understood! I've never heard of any out-of-station interchange
existing there - indeed I'm not sure there are any such out-of-station
interchanges defined for journeys that involve a change from National
Rail to LU (apart from Marylebone to Baker Street - but that's because
Chiltern Railways at Marylebone is in effett masquerading as an LU
line for ticketing purposes).

Tower Hill to Fenchurch St? Although C2C similarly masquerades as a LU
line, I guess.


Good point - though as you say in the ticketing scheme of things the
C2C line is also wearing a masque here.

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:41:07 -0700, Mizter T wrote:

Thirdly and critically there's always the issue of paving and
conflicts. I think that trains from WCML slow lines to the WLL need to
cross the WCML fast lines on a flat junction, so any such moves block
up the fast lines.

They don't. There is a (very slow) diveunder.

Northbound ex-WLL trains do have to cross the southbound line towards
Euston, though.

Thanks. I've been on those Southern WLL trains a few times to and from
Watford, I just couldn't remember how it was routed in the Willesden
Jn area. Next time I'll keep my eyes open.

So there's still a conflict for trains coming off the WLL heading to
the WCML slow lines as they have to cross the WCML fast lines - unless
the Southern trains head north-west along the fast lines for some
distance before swapping to the slow lines (which would still creates
a conflict of course)?

Sorry, I was imprecise. I should have said: Northbound ex-WLL trains
do have to cross the southbound Slow Line towards Euston, though.

The layout is something like:

------] (diveunder to WLL)
/
---Slow lines---*-----------------------------
- Watford Euston -
---Fast lines---------------------------------