On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 00:35:39 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:

And on the subject of Denham and anomalies, who's going to decide what
counts as a "local" bus service for the purposes of free bus travel for
over 60s from next April?

One would assume that the legal definition will apply - that it must
be a registered local stage carriage service rather than a coach
service. The former receives fuel duty rebate, the latter doesn't, so
the definition is already there, though I believe some bus companies
take the **** by registering a long route as two separate ones even
though it operates as one.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Barry Salter wrote

And on the subject of Denham and anomalies, who's going to decide
what
counts as a "local" bus service for the purposes of free bus travel
for
over 60s from next April?

Green Line Route 724, which generally uses Single Decker buses in the

usual Arriva Turquoise livery, could class as either, depending on
the [...]

I assume that 'local' means those that are currently valid on some
local bus pass and that all that is intended to happen from the end of
March '08 is the extension of geographical validity to the whole of
England.

The notes with the Surrey permit say

Not Route 80 (no idea if this still runs)
Not National Express Coach services
Not special services

Otherwise any route that passes though Surrey, so includes the 465 &
R68.

And more recently the new First 300 Windsor to Virginia Water Station
via Windsor Great Park has been made an exception from the start
(though there is a discount).

--
Mike D

On 25 Sep 2007 15:32:46 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:

Not Route 80 (no idea if this still runs)
Not National Express Coach services
Not special services

Interestingly, Megabus and Scottish Citylink are required to carry for
free[1] within Scotland. Could well end up *including* NatEx...

[1] Megabus still require their booking fee is paid, however, but not
the fare.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sep 25, 8:29 pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On 25 Sep 2007 15:32:46 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:

Not Route 80 (no idea if this still runs)
Not National Express Coach services
Not special services

Interestingly, Megabus and Scottish Citylink are required to carry for
free[1] within Scotland. Could well end up *including* NatEx...

[1] Megabus still require their booking fee is paid, however, but not
the fare.



Well, it's going to be difficult for anything in London to beat Fort
William to Glasgow as a scenic route ...

I've always enjoyed Eversley Park Road on the 125, which sends you plunging
into the bowels of the Earth before hauling you back out again - as I
descend, I feel that the road climbing the far side of the valley is
parallel with the front of the bus. I suppose it's an optical illusion,
because the 3D views on WIndows Live Local suggest it isn't that steep at
all.

Shooters Hill on the 89 is another good valley, but you get a much longer
and grander view.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 00:35:39 +0100, Barry Salter wrote:

The 331 is a pretty good route, but again loses points for being a
single decker.

It's also one of the "Beyond the Fringes" routes that strays outside
Greater London as it passes through Denham.

Denham: Scene of much annoyance as the Post Office/Mini Market will
quite happily sell you a Zones 1 to 6 Travelcard (valid on the 331
throughout the route), but if you want to get the Chiltern Railways
service into Marylebone, rather than the 331 to Uxbridge and then the
Met or Piccadilly, it'll cost you an extra £2.80 for the privilege, as
it's outside the zones.

Mind you, if it was up to me (which it isn't), I'd extend the Z6
boundary to include Denham, just to get rid of that anomaly.

There are plenty of other examples of this, such as the 258 to Watford
Junction and the 81 to Slough (TfL tickets, including any-zone
Travelcards, are valid throughout). Extending Z6 to include them all
would make it rather large!

On Sep 25, 12:02 am, Peter Heather wrote:
On 24 Sep, 22:15, "Chris Read" wrote:



What about some of the routes in the Purley/Warlingham/Woodmansterne areas?
This is fairly hilly territory, and I've often thought I could enjoy a ride
on the top deck around these parts, but never made time for it. In fact, any
route recommendations in this area?

Try the 409 from East Croydon Station. It's a long lived survivor from
LT Country Bus days and still goes to East Grinstead, miles out in the
country, albeit via a very slightly different route these days. It's
surprising how quickly you leave behind the very urban feel of Croydon
as it trundles through leafy suburbs and heads off through very
sparsly populated areas and zig zags across Surrey picking up various
towns otherwise unserved by any buses at all. It even at one point
back-tracks on itself along the same road in the Farleigh area! It's
usually a single deck vehicle, although double deckers are sometimes
used - despite the fact that it it usually only has a couple of people
on board. Allow yourself plenty of time as it must be one of the
slowest ways of getting anywhere, which is why almost no one uses it,
apart from the fact that it only runs once an hour and stops running
at about 6p.m. and not at all on Sundays. Welcome to public transport
outside London!

Peter

The 409 is a rather long route; apparently it takes about 2 hours:
Imberhorne School
London Road / Yew Lane
London Road / Sackville Lane
London Road / Buckhurst Way
London Road/ Newlands Crescent
East Grinstead Fire Station
East Grinstead Station
East Grinstead Fire Station
London Road / Railway Approach
London Road / Rices Hill
East Grinstead, War Memorial
Sackville College
Sackville School
Woodberry Avenue / The Oaks
Harmans Drive
Estcots Drive / Sycamore Drive
Estcots Drive / Court Crescent
East Court
Queen Victoria Hospital
Holtye Road / Quarry Rise
Stone Quarry Estate
The Larches
Wilderwick Farm
The Approach
Dormans Station Turning
Dormansland School
Dormansland / Memorial
Dormansland / The Plough
St Piers Lane
Lingfield Racecourse
Town Hill / Station Road
Lingfield / War Memorial
Lingfield / Church Road
Little Lullenden
Saxbys Lane / Crowhurst Road
Lingfield Common/Hare & Hounds
Meadowside
Ray Bridge
Tandridge Lane
Blindley Heath / Albion House
Blindley Heath / Blue Anchor
Cottenhams
Blindley Heath / Church
Byers Lane
Anglefield Corner
South Godstone / The Mount
South Godstone / RSPCA Centre
Godstone Station
St Stephen's School
Woodlands Drive
Harts Lane
Leigh Mill Cottages
Walkingstead Pond
The Enterdent
Tilburstow Hill Road
Godstone Hare and Hounds
Lindley Road
Godstone Fire Station
Quarry Road
Tupwood Lane
White Knobs Way
Longsdon Way
Caterham, Caterham Rail Station
Caterham Hospital
Court Road (Caterham)
Golden Lion
Westway Common/Douglas Blunton
Court Road / Clifton Arms
Hambledon Road
Caterham Barracks
Old Broad Street (Caterham)
Addison Road (Caterham)
Buxton Lane
Macaulay Road
Portley Lane
Buxton Avenue
Salmons Lane Green
Kenley Radio Technical Laborat
Badgers Walk
Whyteleafe, Whyteleafe Rail Station
Warlingham, Upper Warlingham Rail Station
Oakley Road /Warlingham
Westview Road
Paddock Walk
Westhall Road
Homefield Road / Warlingham
Hillbury Road / Warlingham
Warlingham Green
Marks Road Limpsfield Road
Warlingham Sainsburys
St Christophers Church
Green Hill Lane
Green Lane
Parsonage Close
Farleigh / The Harrow Inn
Daniels Lane
Great Park
Chelsham Common
Daniels Lane
Beech Way
Selsdon Nature Reserve West
Ravenshead Close
Hawthorn Crescent
Dulverton Road/Selsdon Library
Queenhill Road
Brent Road / Farley Road
Littleheath Road
Farley Road / Croham Valley Rd
Ballards Way
Manor Way / Croham Valley Road
Croham Hurst School
Campden Road
South Croydon Station
Elmhurst School
Birdhurst Gardens
Coombe Road / Park Hill Road
Selborne Road
Fairfield Road Park Hill Road
Garrick Crescent
East Croydon Station
Croydon / Fairfield Halls

On 24 Sep, 22:15, "Chris Read" wrote:


The 409 is a rather long route; apparently it takes about 2 hours:

--snipped--

Which is why I said few people travel on it. It's about 16 miles by
road between Croydon and East Grinstead so is averaging 8 miles an
hour. The reason being that the bus dives up side roads all over the
place in the hope of finding passengers. It finds few people because
it spends so long wandering about Surrey that they would rather drive
if they have a car (pretty well essential outside Ken's Kingdom) or go
by train if doing a large part of the journey.

Peter

Peter Heather wrote:
On 24 Sep, 22:15, "Chris Read" wrote:

The 409 is a rather long route; apparently it takes about 2 hours:

--snipped--

... It finds few people because
it spends so long wandering about Surrey that they would rather drive
if they have a car ...


Not exactly scenic but on the theme of wandering Surrey buses an
interesting sight is the 479 at Bookham station which religiously leaves
one minute before the next train arrives (if it stops at all - it does
like to scream in and out of the car park avoiding eye contact with
anyone) thus avoiding picking up anyone who might conceivably like to
use it as a connecting service.

mf

Mystery Flyer wrote

Not exactly scenic but on the theme of wandering Surrey buses an
interesting sight is the 479 at Bookham station which religiously
leaves
one minute before the next train arrives (if it stops at all - it
does
like to scream in and out of the car park avoiding eye contact with
anyone) thus avoiding picking up anyone who might conceivably like to

use it as a connecting service.

So tell Surrey CC, who, it seems, pay for it, what you want it to do.

passenger.transport at surreycc.gov.uk

But be very clear since your description suggests that it is currently
usable for someone wishing to catch the 'next train'.

(paper timetables, I haven't checked online)
479 Bookham to L'head & Epsom 29 & 59
479 To Guildford at 52
479 From L'head & Epsom 24 & 52
479 From Guildford at 59

Rail Bookham to W'loo, L'head & Epsom (from Guildford) 21 & 51
Rail to Guildford (from W'loo, L'head & Epsom) 29 & 59

--
Mike D