On Sep 26, 11:20 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

...



On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:37:12 -0700, Paul Oter
wrote:

On 25 Sep, 22:35, Paul Corfield wrote:

The escalators and platforms have not been rebuilt though. Yes there is
more ticket hall and upper level circulation but not below.

Is the planned northern ticket hall expected to make things much
better? It won't increase the number of trains, not the size of the
platforms. And of course the new international and domestic services
to St Pancras will mean even more people using the underground
station.

Will each deep-level platform be given a new exit? Having an
alternative way off from the platform (especially the Northern line
platform, which have the exit at one end) would help a lot.

There is certainly a new link being added for the Picc Line and also
into the current Thameslink tunnel (between the Vic and Picc Lines). I
think the Northern is also getting a new entry / exit point into the
corridor that will run to the Northern ticket hall. I haven't seen a
specific new entrance on the Vic line platforms - I think people would
be directed to the Thameslink corridor.

This has a bit more info

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ov06-Apr07_FIN...

That will help spread people throughout the station but platforms are
still the same length and depth plus people tend to congregate at entry
and exit points rather than walk along. There will still come a point
where it is impossible to get people on or off platforms if the train
service is up the creek.

I found some DfT sponsored plans for the Northern Ticket Hall and associated
passageways from 2004. Heavy going, but shows all future stages of
development, the final arrangements seem to be figure 12, and confirms what
you say above about the Victoria line not having a new entrance. There has
been much previous debate about the eastern most route from the Victoria
line platforms to the KX Thameslink entrance, you would imagine they'd have
to make a decision soon, even if it only removes a very small % of the tube
ticket hall footfall it would seem to be helpful...

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/ct...tationcapacity

Paul S

Thanks, I've been looking for a diagram like that for ages! Looks as
if it's going to be a long walk from the Northern ticket hall to all
three tube lines, but hopefully the ambience and dimensions of the new
corridors will make up for that.

"brixtonite" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Sep 26, 11:20 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

...



On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:37:12 -0700, Paul Oter

wrote:

On 25 Sep, 22:35, Paul Corfield wrote:

The escalators and platforms have not been rebuilt though. Yes there
is
more ticket hall and upper level circulation but not below.

Is the planned northern ticket hall expected to make things much
better? It won't increase the number of trains, not the size of the
platforms. And of course the new international and domestic services
to St Pancras will mean even more people using the underground
station.

Will each deep-level platform be given a new exit? Having an
alternative way off from the platform (especially the Northern line
platform, which have the exit at one end) would help a lot.

There is certainly a new link being added for the Picc Line and also
into the current Thameslink tunnel (between the Vic and Picc Lines). I
think the Northern is also getting a new entry / exit point into the
corridor that will run to the Northern ticket hall. I haven't seen a
specific new entrance on the Vic line platforms - I think people would
be directed to the Thameslink corridor.

This has a bit more info

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ov06-Apr07_FIN...

That will help spread people throughout the station but platforms are
still the same length and depth plus people tend to congregate at entry
and exit points rather than walk along. There will still come a point
where it is impossible to get people on or off platforms if the train
service is up the creek.

I found some DfT sponsored plans for the Northern Ticket Hall and
associated
passageways from 2004. Heavy going, but shows all future stages of
development, the final arrangements seem to be figure 12, and confirms
what
you say above about the Victoria line not having a new entrance. There
has
been much previous debate about the eastern most route from the Victoria
line platforms to the KX Thameslink entrance, you would imagine they'd
have
to make a decision soon, even if it only removes a very small % of the
tube
ticket hall footfall it would seem to be helpful...

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/ct...tationcapacity

Paul S

Thanks, I've been looking for a diagram like that for ages! Looks as
if it's going to be a long walk from the Northern ticket hall to all
three tube lines, but hopefully the ambience and dimensions of the new
corridors will make up for that.

I hoped a few people might find it useful. The web page up one level has a
load of stuff about whether or not to actually build the northern ticket
hall, of historic interest only now of course...

Paul S

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

"brixtonite" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Sep 26, 11:20 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

...



On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:37:12 -0700, Paul Oter

wrote:

On 25 Sep, 22:35, Paul Corfield wrote:

The escalators and platforms have not been rebuilt though. Yes
there is
more ticket hall and upper level circulation but not below.

Is the planned northern ticket hall expected to make things much
better? It won't increase the number of trains, not the size of the
platforms. And of course the new international and domestic services
to St Pancras will mean even more people using the underground
station.

Will each deep-level platform be given a new exit? Having an
alternative way off from the platform (especially the Northern line
platform, which have the exit at one end) would help a lot.

There is certainly a new link being added for the Picc Line and also
into the current Thameslink tunnel (between the Vic and Picc Lines). I
think the Northern is also getting a new entry / exit point into the
corridor that will run to the Northern ticket hall. I haven't seen a
specific new entrance on the Vic line platforms - I think people would
be directed to the Thameslink corridor.

This has a bit more info

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ov06-Apr07_FIN...

That will help spread people throughout the station but platforms are
still the same length and depth plus people tend to congregate at
entry
and exit points rather than walk along. There will still come a point
where it is impossible to get people on or off platforms if the train
service is up the creek.

I found some DfT sponsored plans for the Northern Ticket Hall and
associated
passageways from 2004. Heavy going, but shows all future stages of
development, the final arrangements seem to be figure 12, and confirms
what
you say above about the Victoria line not having a new entrance. There
has
been much previous debate about the eastern most route from the Victoria
line platforms to the KX Thameslink entrance, you would imagine they'd
have
to make a decision soon, even if it only removes a very small % of the
tube
ticket hall footfall it would seem to be helpful...

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/ct...tationcapacity

Paul S

Thanks, I've been looking for a diagram like that for ages! Looks as
if it's going to be a long walk from the Northern ticket hall to all
three tube lines, but hopefully the ambience and dimensions of the new
corridors will make up for that.

I hoped a few people might find it useful. The web page up one level has a
load of stuff about whether or not to actually build the northern ticket
hall, of historic interest only now of course...

Paul S


I hate my journeys home when Arsenal or Spurs are playing, but love it when
the train empties at Finsbury Park
Can't wait for Silverlink to be transferred to TFL and more frequent trains
introduced

On 26 Sep, 11:28, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

(snip)

Of course, Arsenal_playing_at_home didn't help any.

Indeed. Arsenal FC should either stump up the cash for the improvements
needed to get their fans in and out of the stadium without ****ing
everyone else over, or move out, or close down. It's frankly insulting
that they continue to just dump tens of thousands of people in my
neighbourhood a couple of times a week and expect us to live with it.
Drayton Park should be improved to be able to cope with the loads
(instead of shutting down!), and the necessary improvements at KX should
be brought forward, and Arsenal should foot the bill, end of.

tom


Part of the deal for the new stadium was that Arsenal FC were to hand
over money for transport improvements (which I believe they have done/
are still doing - i.e. they have kept their side of the bargain). AIUI
originally this was going to involve modernising Holloway Road (and
Drayton Park?) so it could handle the extra capacity - which proved to
be an unrealistic proposal (though it wasn't something that had solely
emanated out of AFC - LU was involved as well).

In the end I understand that TfL decided that the money would be
better spent improving Finsbury Park and Highbury & Islington stations
instead. I presume, but don't know for sure, that the recent
improvements at Finsbury Park were as a result of this.

I'm by no means totally clued up on these matters so would appreciate
comments from anyone who's more expert on them.

Regarding 'your neighbourhood', well I dare say Arsenal FC moved to
the neighbourhood before most people in the area were born! (I don't
count their recent move just down the road as a change of
neighbourhood.) The club are as part of the neighbourhood as you are,
so people living in your area should expect the crowds.

The capacity of 60,000 at Ashburton Grove is the same as the capacity
of Highbury at its peak, and until all-seater stadiums were
introduced in the early 90's the Highbury capacity was just under
that at 57,000.

Big crowds at football (and to a lesser extent other spectator sports)
are part of London's life, they ain't gonna be airbrushed away!

On 27 Sep, 10:29, Mizter T wrote:
Indeed. Arsenal FC should either stump up the cash for the improvements
needed to get their fans in and out of the stadium without ****ing
everyone else over, or move out, or close down. It's frankly insulting
that they continue to just dump tens of thousands of people in my
neighbourhood a couple of times a week and expect us to live with it.
Drayton Park should be improved to be able to cope with the loads
(instead of shutting down!), and the necessary improvements at KX should
be brought forward, and Arsenal should foot the bill, end of.

Part of the deal for the new stadium was that Arsenal FC were to hand
over money for transport improvements (which I believe they have done/
are still doing - i.e. they have kept their side of the bargain). AIUI
originally this was going to involve modernising Holloway Road (and
Drayton Park?) so it could handle the extra capacity - which proved to
be an unrealistic proposal (though it wasn't something that had solely
emanated out of AFC - LU was involved as well).

In the end I understand that TfL decided that the money would be
better spent improving Finsbury Park and Highbury & Islington stations
instead. I presume, but don't know for sure, that the recent
improvements at Finsbury Park were as a result of this.

I'm by no means totally clued up on these matters so would appreciate
comments from anyone who's more expert on them.

I'd also be interested to hear that. I thought Arsenal *hadn't* paid
up - but if the new entrance at H&I and all the works at FP are partly
funded by Gooner cheques then that's good news.

[side note: if anyone knows anything about the step-free access / re-
opening of former entrance project at H&I, or has access to the plans,
then please can you enlighten us?]

Regarding 'your neighbourhood', well I dare say Arsenal FC moved to
the neighbourhood before most people in the area were born! (I don't
count their recent move just down the road as a change of
neighbourhood.) The club are as part of the neighbourhood as you are,
so people living in your area should expect the crowds.

*applauds*.

I lived in FP for quite a while. I'm not a Gooner, and it's annoying
when you're trying to get home only to be shepherded on a ridiculous
route by coppers, or when your normally-nice local locks away its
furniture, serves lager-only-in-plastic-pints and fills with red-
scarfed madmen for the day. But they were there before me, and
absolutely have the right to stay there [plus, they almost certainly
kept the rent down compared with less football-y parts of town...]

[side rant - there's nothing I hate more than the people who move into
city centres and then complain about the noise made by pubs and clubs.
It's a f***ing city centre, that's what they're *for* - move out of
Soho or Camden and into the f***ing countryside if you don't want
people drinking on your doorstep at 4AM, rather than bleating to the
council and the papers about Yobberisation.]

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007, Mizter T wrote:

On 26 Sep, 11:28, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

Of course, Arsenal_playing_at_home didn't help any.

Indeed. Arsenal FC should either stump up the cash for the improvements
needed to get their fans in and out of the stadium without ****ing
everyone else over, or move out, or close down. It's frankly insulting
that they continue to just dump tens of thousands of people in my
neighbourhood a couple of times a week and expect us to live with it.
Drayton Park should be improved to be able to cope with the loads
(instead of shutting down!), and the necessary improvements at KX
should be brought forward, and Arsenal should foot the bill, end of.

Part of the deal for the new stadium was that Arsenal FC were to hand
over money for transport improvements (which I believe they have done/
are still doing - i.e. they have kept their side of the bargain). AIUI
originally this was going to involve modernising Holloway Road (and
Drayton Park?) so it could handle the extra capacity - which proved to
be an unrealistic proposal (though it wasn't something that had solely
emanated out of AFC - LU was involved as well).

This is also what i've read. What i'm saying, entirely unreasonably, is
that this isn't good enough - if it turns out that the improvements needed
to keep Arsenal's business running are more expensive than predicted, then
they need to write a bigger cheque. They can't just say they've done their
bit, walk away, and leave the problem with me.

Improving Holloway Road does seem like a bit of a waste of effort, i have
to say - it's no closer than Arsenal, and that already has a demonstrated
ability to handle crowds. Finsbury Park and Highbury and Islington, fair
enough, but again, those seem to do okay. The real problem is Drayton
Park, which closes altogether, when it could be getting a substantial
fraction of people away from the stadium quickly and efficiently, without
them having to walk up to FP and get in my way!

Regarding 'your neighbourhood', well I dare say Arsenal FC moved to the
neighbourhood before most people in the area were born! (I don't count
their recent move just down the road as a change of neighbourhood.)

I would - Highbury and Holloway are very strongly separated, mostly
because of the GN&CR, funnily enough. But this is hair-splitting.

The club are as part of the neighbourhood as you are, so people living
in your area should expect the crowds.

I fail to see how antisocial behaviour is excused by having a long
history.

Big crowds at football (and to a lesser extent other spectator sports)
are part of London's life, they ain't gonna be airbrushed away!

Ditto cholera, pea-soupers, and bumper-to-bumper congestion in the middle
of town, right?

tom

--
The future will accost us with boob-slapping ferocity. -- H. G. Wells