On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Offramp wrote:

So it looks like the crazy old Crossrail is going ahead! Coooooool!

Shunt! Shunt! Kriss Krossrail'll make you shunt! Shunt!

Ahem. Story he

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7024935.stm

No mention of land value capture per se; i'm not sure quite how this "levy
on London business rates" will work.

"If the project gets the final go-ahead, construction would begin in 2010
with trains up and running by 2015."

A likely story. Construction will start two years before the Olympics?
Well, there is the point that the Olympics won't need TBMs, but i'm not
convinced.

John Kay (who he? -ed.) doesn't like it, no sir:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/49e9a016-7...0779fd2ac.html

He dislikes it for stupid reasons, though, and says stupid things ("old
postal tunnel" is probably the funniest, if not the most stupid).

tom

--
so if you hear a chaffinch out on the pull attempting a severely off-key
version of "Sabotage" by the Beastie Boys then you're not actually
going mad.

On Oct 2, 9:59 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Offramp wrote:

Shunt! Shunt! Kriss Krossrail'll make you shunt! Shunt!

Construction will start two years before the Olympics?
Well, there is the point that the Olympics won't need TBMs, but i'm not
convinced.

John Kay (who he? -ed.) doesn't like it, no sir:

I can foresee that in 2011 (like the JLE in 1998/9) the papers will
start to say, 'Why isn't this thing ready? It's meant to be ready for
the 2012 Olympics!?'
Then the Gov will throw squillions of pounds at it and it'll open in
May 2012.

"Offramp" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 2, 9:59 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Offramp wrote:

Shunt! Shunt! Kriss Krossrail'll make you shunt! Shunt!

Construction will start two years before the Olympics?
Well, there is the point that the Olympics won't need TBMs, but i'm not
convinced.

John Kay (who he? -ed.) doesn't like it, no sir:

I can foresee that in 2011 (like the JLE in 1998/9) the papers will
start to say, 'Why isn't this thing ready? It's meant to be ready for
the 2012 Olympics!?'
Then the Gov will throw squillions of pounds at it and it'll open in
May 2012.

The Crossrail work plans (available on their website) generally have two
years of enabling works prior 6 years of main excavations, tunnelling and
then station fit out.

So if the journalists ever read the info, they should be writing about
completion in 2016...

Paul

On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Paul Scott wrote:

On Oct 2, 9:59 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

Construction will start two years before the Olympics? Well, there is
the point that the Olympics won't need TBMs, but i'm not convinced.

The Crossrail work plans (available on their website) generally have two
years of enabling works prior 6 years of main excavations, tunnelling
and then station fit out.

Aha. So they'd need 2008-2010 for preparatory works before the tunnelling
can start, which would run 2010-2016, with fit and finish done by 2017.
How big a job will the preparations be? If it's substantial, i imagine
they won't be able to get it done before the Olympics, which means you'd
actually be looking at a 2012 start and a 2021 finish. Or else both
projects paying over the odds for extra labour. Yikes.

So if the journalists ever read the info, they should be writing about
completion in 2016...

According to the Graun [1], "the earliest finishing point is 2017"!

Question: what's the start date for the works? Answer: Surprise! It's
2002:

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/80256B090...256D1900534714

tom

[1] http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...182363,00.html

--
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity -- Hanlon's Razor

On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Offramp wrote:

On Oct 2, 9:59 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

Construction will start two years before the Olympics?

I can foresee that in 2011 (like the JLE in 1998/9) the papers will
start to say, 'Why isn't this thing ready? It's meant to be ready for
the 2012 Olympics!?' Then the Gov will throw squillions of pounds at it
and it'll open in May 2012.

Except the government have never said it'll be ready for the Olympics. A
lot of people seem to think that's the plan, but they're generally the
same people who think Hackney is getting a tube line, ie the uninformed.
If a hue and cry is raised, the government can quite truthfully say that
it can't be delivered before the Olympics, it never could have been, and
they never said it would be.

tom

--
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity -- Hanlon's Razor

At 15:15:36 on Wed, 3 Oct 2007 Tom Anderson opined:-

On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Offramp wrote:

On Oct 2, 9:59 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

Construction will start two years before the Olympics?

I can foresee that in 2011 (like the JLE in 1998/9) the papers will
start to say, 'Why isn't this thing ready? It's meant to be ready for
the 2012 Olympics!?' Then the Gov will throw squillions of pounds at it
and it'll open in May 2012.

Except the government have never said it'll be ready for the Olympics. A
lot of people seem to think that's the plan, but they're generally the
same people who think Hackney is getting a tube line, ie the uninformed.
If a hue and cry is raised, the government can quite truthfully say that
it can't be delivered before the Olympics, it never could have been, and
they never said it would be.

Indeed. I seem to remember that, when London was awarded the Olympics,
it was stated that Crossrail was planned to open in 2013.
--
Thoss
E-mail address usenetatamoladdotorgdotuk

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007, thoss wrote:

At 15:15:36 on Wed, 3 Oct 2007 Tom Anderson opined:-

On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Offramp wrote:

On Oct 2, 9:59 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

Construction will start two years before the Olympics?

I can foresee that in 2011 (like the JLE in 1998/9) the papers will
start to say, 'Why isn't this thing ready? It's meant to be ready for
the 2012 Olympics!?' Then the Gov will throw squillions of pounds at it
and it'll open in May 2012.

Except the government have never said it'll be ready for the Olympics. A
lot of people seem to think that's the plan, but they're generally the
same people who think Hackney is getting a tube line, ie the uninformed.
If a hue and cry is raised, the government can quite truthfully say that
it can't be delivered before the Olympics, it never could have been, and
they never said it would be.

Indeed. I seem to remember that, when London was awarded the Olympics,
it was stated that Crossrail was planned to open in 2013.

Funny. I seem to remember that when London got the Olympics, is was made
very clear that Crossrail wouldn't be ready by then - although it was
claimed that Thameslink would be.

tom

--
Damn the Solar System. Bad light; planets too distant; pestered with
comets; feeble contrivance; could make a better myself. -- Francis Jeffery

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

Indeed. I seem to remember that, when London was awarded the
Olympics, it was stated that Crossrail was planned to open in 2013.

Funny. I seem to remember that when London got the Olympics, is was
made very clear that Crossrail wouldn't be ready by then - although
it was claimed that Thameslink would be.

These two statements seem to agree!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

At 19:10:35 on Thu, 4 Oct 2007 Tom Anderson opined:-

Indeed. I seem to remember that, when London was awarded the Olympics,
it was stated that Crossrail was planned to open in 2013.

Funny. I seem to remember that when London got the Olympics, is was made
very clear that Crossrail wouldn't be ready by then - although it was
claimed that Thameslink would be.

That's what I said.
--
Thoss
E-mail address usenetatamoladdotorgdotuk

On 4 Oct, 22:01, thoss wrote:
At 19:10:35 on Thu, 4 Oct 2007 Tom Anderson opined:-

Indeed. I seem to remember that, when London was awarded the Olympics,
it was stated that Crossrail was planned to open in 2013.

Funny. I seem to remember that when London got the Olympics, is was made
very clear that Crossrail wouldn't be ready by then - although it was
claimed that Thameslink would be.

That's what I said.

Indeed, in my reading, you said exactly that!