Further detail is emerging


http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/story.php?id=4430

quote
Crossrail tax revealed as Mayor gains project control
Filed 10/10/07

Transport for London is to take charge of delivering the £16bn
Crossrail scheme, the government announced yesterday (9 October).

Cross London Rail Links, the 50/50 joint venture between TfL and the
Department for Transport which has worked up plans for Crossrail Lines
1 and 2, will become a wholly owned subsidiary of Transport for
London, subject to certain unspecified rights retained by the DfT that
will "reflect the Department's contribution to the project". TfL,
which answers to London Mayor Ken Livingstone, will also arrange to
borrow billions of pounds to pay for construction of the project.

Announcing his three-year Comprehensive Spending Review, Chancellor of
the Exchequer Alistair Darling fleshed out funding plans for the east-
west rail link. He confirmed that the Department for Transport will
provide approximately one third of the cost, in the form of a grant
exceeding £5bn, to be paid during the construction of Crossrail.

Fare payers will contribute around another third of the cost of the
scheme, with revenue servicing debt raised during construction by TfL
and by Network Rail in respect of works affecting the existing
National Rail Network.

The final third of the money needed will be provided by London
businesses through direct contributions and a levy on businesses.
Following the agreement reached by the DfT for Greenwich Council and
Berkeley Homes to fund Woolwich station, Canary Wharf Group will take
responsibility for delivering Isle of Dogs station. The City of London
Corporation will provide £350m towards the cost of the Crossrail
project, including a one-off lump sum, payable to the government in
2015/2016, of £200m from the City of London Corporation's own funds.
Michael Snyder, chairman of the City of London's Policy and Resources
Committee and the City Corporation have agreed to lead efforts to
raise additional contributions totalling £150m from businesses across
the capital.

Mayor of London Ken Livingstone has indicated that he envisages using
new powers proposed by ministers to levy a tax supplement on
businesses across London of two pence per pound of rateable value from
April 2010. Discounts would be available for companies with a rateable
value below £50,000. This money will be used to service £3.5bn of debt
raised by the Mayor during construction. The government is publishing
a White Paper setting out its proposals to allow local authorities to
raise supplementary business rates - in line with the Mayor's
Crossrail funding plans - to pay for wide-ranging economic
development.

The Mayor also hopes to secure further contributions from property
developers with schemes in the vicinity of Crossrail stations. Royal
Assent for the Crossrail Hybrid Bill is expected in summer 2008 with
construction of the scheme due to get underway during 2010.
unquote

Peter Masson wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote


What would the benefits of ditching HEx be for Crossrail, apart from
increased passenger numbers - would it just be more capacity in the
Heathrow tunnels?


I'd be surprised if HEx was ditched, as it will still be quite a bit quicker
from Paddington than Crossrail, but Crossrail will mean a rethink. I expect
that TfL will want to bring Heathrow via Crossrail into the Travelcard
zones, which will call into question the premium fares on HEx.


I would think that the most important thing for something like HEx to
survive on that route (with that ticket price level etc) would be to
extend it somewhere more useful than Paddington. City/Docklands?
Otherwise it will still just be the quickest link between Heathrow and
the hotels around Paddington/Lancaster Gate, and quickest in practially
only that case.

--
Olof Lagerkvist
ICQ: 724451
Web: http://here.is/olof

On 10 Oct, 09:58, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote

What would the benefits of ditching HEx be for Crossrail, apart from
increased passenger numbers - would it just be more capacity in the
Heathrow tunnels?

I'd be surprised if HEx was ditched, as it will still be quite a bit quicker
from Paddington than Crossrail, but Crossrail will mean a rethink. I expect
that TfL will want to bring Heathrow via Crossrail into the Travelcard
zones, which will call into question the premium fares on HEx. I also expect
that TfL would want Crossrail to go to T5, which causes problems for serving
T4 - should HEx revert to T4, leaving its passengers to change for the much
busier T5? Or should the HEx link to T4 be abandoned? And will two platforms
at T5 suffice for HEx and Crossrail?

Peter

Let's not forget that it's possible to go from T123 to T5 on the
Piccadilly line, but not from T123 to T4 unless going to Hatton Cross
and change. So I think the T4 branch will stay.
If HEX gets scrapped I could see 8 trains per hour for Heathrow
(extending some of the Paddington terminating trains), 4 for each
branch. That'd be much better for the whole scheme.

On 10 Oct, 09:41, Mizter T wrote:
What would the benefits of ditching HEx be for Crossrail, apart from
increased passenger numbers - would it just be more capacity in the
Heathrow tunnels?

Ken's job is to make Londoners and visitors to London happy, and
arranging a service to/from Heathrow that's both fast and direct
instead of having to choose between the two seems to fall under that
remit.

I don't think there's any direct benefit to Crossrail itself, though
freeing up a couple more platforms at Paddington must be good for the
cost-benefit ratio.

I find it incredibly unlikely that the Abbey Wood branch would be
delayed, as it is the branch that would serve Canary Wharf and the
docklands via Isle of Dogs station (and Canary Wharf Ltd has already
agreed to contribute towards Crossrail too). Unless the plan is to
stop tunnelling at Isle of Dogs and terminate and then reverse trains
there?

Custom House is more logical - there's no crossover before there, and
the tunnels are being dug from nearby anyway. That still saves the
cost of building the entirely separate tunnels under the Thames,
refurbishing Connaught Tunnel, building their part of Woolwich
station, rebuilding Abbey Wood, and several miles of new
electrification, all to serve a line that already has a DLR
interchange (soon two) and direct trains to the City and West End. I
can't imagine the business case for it has ever been good, especially
since it stopped continuing to Ebbsfleet.

(and if this and today's other rumour are true, maybe Crossrail can go
to Dagenham Dock instead...)

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

In article . com,
lonelytraveller wrote:

You are missing my point. The issue was people who would be travelling
to the west end from Stevenage/Kings Lynn; it was suggested that they
remain on Thameslink until farringdon. I disputed the wisdom of this
because it takes them further east than they would need to go.

Cambridge resident here. Assuming TL2K and Crossrail, that's *exactly*
what I'd do - FCC to Farringdon, Crossrail to TCR or Bond Street. I'd
expect this to be much faster than changing to the tube at KX/StP and
messing about with the Picadilly or Victoria Lines.

There being no direct connection to TCR from KX, and no decent
interchange to the CX branch of the Northern Line from KX/StP is
currently one of the most irritating things about using the Tube to
get to and from the West End for me.

On 10 Oct, 11:08, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 10 Oct, 09:41, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

I find it incredibly unlikely that the Abbey Wood branch would be
delayed, as it is the branch that would serve Canary Wharf and the
docklands via Isle of Dogs station (and Canary Wharf Ltd has already
agreed to contribute towards Crossrail too). Unless the plan is to
stop tunnelling at Isle of Dogs and terminate and then reverse trains
there?

Custom House is more logical - there's no crossover before there, and
the tunnels are being dug from nearby anyway. That still saves the
cost of building the entirely separate tunnels under the Thames,
refurbishing Connaught Tunnel, building their part of Woolwich
station, rebuilding Abbey Wood, and several miles of new
electrification, all to serve a line that already has a DLR
interchange (soon two) and direct trains to the City and West End. I
can't imagine the business case for it has ever been good, especially
since it stopped continuing to Ebbsfleet.

Yes, of course, if it was to be cut short then Custom House would, as
you say, be the logical choice.

However I quite disagree with the idea that the Abbey Wood branch is
useless. The forthcoming DLR interchange at Woolwich Arsenal isn't
really a substitute either - it's a lower capacity, slower light rail
route. The DLR is fantastic, but it's just not in the same league.

The branch would give direct access to the whole east-west Crossrail
route from the North Kent lines via a cross-platform interchange at
Abbey Wood, and would also (hopefully) serve Woolwich and assist with
its regeneration.

Yes I guess Abbey Wood already has trains to the City (via London
Bridge and Cannon Street) and the West End (via Charing X - though
this is only the edge of the West End really). But if we're using this
logic then the Great Eastern lines already have a similar connection
via a change at Stratford or Liverpool Street onto the Central line,
which in turn will connect one with the Great Western lines out of
Paddington either via Lancaster Gate (around the corner from
Paddington) or Ealing Broadway.

Wouldn't a connection between Crossrail and HeX require a fly over
between Crossrail to the north of the Paddington layout and the
fastlines on the south? Perhaps it will replace Heathrow Connect on
the slow lines?

On 10 Oct, 09:58, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote

What would the benefits of ditching HEx be for Crossrail, apart from
increased passenger numbers - would it just be more capacity in the
Heathrow tunnels?

I'd be surprised if HEx was ditched, as it will still be quite a bit quicker
from Paddington than Crossrail, but Crossrail will mean a rethink. I expect
that TfL will want to bring Heathrow via Crossrail into the Travelcard
zones, which will call into question the premium fares on HEx. I also expect
that TfL would want Crossrail to go to T5, which causes problems for serving
T4 - should HEx revert to T4, leaving its passengers to change for the much
busier T5? Or should the HEx link to T4 be abandoned? And will two platforms
at T5 suffice for HEx and Crossrail?

Peter

You're making a rather large assumption about the fares on Crossrail.
There seems to be various talk of "premium fares" on Crossrail too -
perhaps not as much as for Heathrow Express but I wouldn't expect it
to be valid on a standard off-peak travelcard at the current level.
By 2017, perhaps paper travelcards will be gone so a premium could be
charged for a journey on Crossrail relative to one on the Central or
Circle line and there would presumably be barriers between Crossrail
and the classic tube lines.

Jonathan

wrote in message
ups.com...
Wouldn't a connection between Crossrail and HeX require a fly over
between Crossrail to the north of the Paddington layout and the
fastlines on the south? Perhaps it will replace Heathrow Connect on
the slow lines?

Yes, and this is all already covered in the published plans. Crossrail
definitely replaces Heathrow Connect, and the current Airport Junction is
completely changed, with two additional flyovers to deconflict all 4
required movements on and off the airport branch.

Paul

On 10 Oct, 12:18, wrote:
Wouldn't a connection between Crossrail and HeX require a fly over
between Crossrail to the north of the Paddington layout and the
fastlines on the south?

Yeah, that's actually the first thing I thought when I saw the
article. With a serious redesign the planned Acton Yard dive under
could help (or over in railway fantasyland there's the H&C dive
under). Or more likely if Ken gets his way all airport services could
run semi-fast on the slow lines, but that doesn't leave much space for
all stops services or freight.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London