The other day I was going from King's Cross to London Bridge. I was on
my way down to the tube, but as I passed the Thameslink platforms
there was a southbound train sitting there, so I jumped on that on the
assumption it would be quicker.

It wasn't. At all.

When TL2000 is finished, will such journies actually be quicker? Or
will Thameslink trains continue to trundle through the city at roughly
walking pace?

Jonn

The other day I was going from King's Cross to London Bridge. I was on
my way down to the tube, but as I passed the Thameslink platforms
there was a southbound train sitting there, so I jumped on that on the
assumption it would be quicker.

It wasn't. At all.

Slow isn't it? If you travel from King's Cross to East Croydon it takes
longer from King's Cross to London Bridge than from London Bridge to East
Croydon.

When TL2000 is finished, will such journies actually be quicker? Or
will Thameslink trains continue to trundle through the city at roughly
walking pace?

I've lost track of what TL2000 is called this week, what the scope of it is,
and what has actually been approved. However a simplified overview of the
problem is that heading towards London Bridge the Thameslink line out of
Blackfriars merges with the two down lines from Charing Cross and they share
platform 5 at London Bridge. In the up direction the Thameslink and Charing
Cross services share platform 6 and the Thameslink line then crosses the
down lines on the flat making an already extremely busy stretch of track
even more problematic. The intended solution is to add another pair of
lines to take the Charing Cross services leaving Thameslink with their own
pair and I can't remember if that falls under TL2000 (as was). However that
doesn't really help much unless they also have their own separate platforms
at London Bridge. There is a plan to remodel London Bridge to give more
through lines and platforms and it needs that to go ahead. I've again lost
track of the state of play on that but I believe that is separate to the
Thameslink scheme. It needs both to go ahead to, hopefully, sort out the
mess.

G.

On 9 Oct, 15:08, "Graham J" wrote:
I've lost track of what TL2000 is called this week, what the scope of it is,
and what has actually been approved.

All of it has, although it hasn't technically got funding for the
final year or two, because that falls in the next budget period.

The intended solution is to add another pair of
lines to take the Charing Cross services leaving Thameslink with their own
pair and I can't remember if that falls under TL2000 (as was)

Yes, and it's going to be the first major bit that opens.

There is a plan to remodel London Bridge to give more
through lines and platforms and it needs that to go ahead. I've again lost
track of the state of play on that but I believe that is separate to the
Thameslink scheme.

Remodelling of the platform area is part of the Thameslink Programme,
and is thus going ahead.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Graham J wrote:

However a simplified overview of the problem is that heading towards
London Bridge

While true, isn't there also a problem at Farringdon because of the time it
takes to switch from overhead to track power supplies?

On 9 Oct, 17:03, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:
Graham J wrote:

While true, isn't there also a problem at Farringdon because of the time it
takes to switch from overhead to track power supplies?

From experience that isn't a problem and takes a matter of seconds.
The biggest problem at Farringdon is the extremely cramped facilities
for passengers. The exit stair from the northbound platform is
extraordinarily narrow and it takes ages to get off the platform in
the morning peak. Almost as bad is the access along the narrow
southbound platform when it is crowded in the evening. I hope the
station gets completely rebuilt in the TL plan otherwise it will never
cope with the proposed 12 car trains.

Peter

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Graham J wrote:

However a simplified overview of the problem is that heading
towards London Bridge

While true, isn't there also a problem at Farringdon because of the
time it takes to switch from overhead to track power supplies?

Shoudn't be. It takes only a few seconds, and at Farringdon should not
extend the normal dwell time in the platform.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On 9 Oct, 17:19, "Richard J." wrote:
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Graham J wrote:

However a simplified overview of the problem is that heading
towards London Bridge

While true, isn't there also a problem at Farringdon because of the
time it takes to switch from overhead to track power supplies?

Shoudn't be. It takes only a few seconds, and at Farringdon should not
extend the normal dwell time in the platform.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)


Some peak trains are scheduled to stand for several minutes at
Blackfriars. Also, as someone said, it's travelling at walking pace
and generally waiting so long at every station that takes up the time.

When Thameslink first started in 1988 or so, it wasn't just the
central section. Thameslink trains were known for standing at every
station for a long time all the way to Brighton. It was a subsequent
innovation for Thameslink to do London Bridge to Brighton in an hour.

When I regularly travelled on that route, the problem used to mainly
be dwell times at Blackfriars, and access to London Bridge, which I
believe is just 2 tracks (1 up, 1 down) at one point. 15 minutes
between the 2 stations was not uncommon. Someone at Thameslink told me
an additional problem was that Southern trains 'had priority over
Thameslink trains at London Bridge' as it was 'their station', which I
was a bit dubious about.

"MIG" wrote in message
oups.com...

Some peak trains are scheduled to stand for several minutes at
Blackfriars. Also, as someone said, it's travelling at walking pace
and generally waiting so long at every station that takes up the time.

I think this is a deliberate attempt to avoid transferring delays between
the northern and southern sections of the route, and to ensure that
southbound trains arrive at Borough Market Junction on time. When (if?) they
get round to giving Thameslink its own path through London Bridge it should
be possible to speed things up a bit.

D A Stocks

wrote:
The other day I was going from King's Cross to London Bridge. I was on
my way down to the tube, but as I passed the Thameslink platforms
there was a southbound train sitting there, so I jumped on that on the
assumption it would be quicker.

It wasn't. At all.

When TL2000 is finished, will such journies actually be quicker? Or
will Thameslink trains continue to trundle through the city at roughly
walking pace?

I have always assumed that the very generous cross London times for
Thameslink is to serve as a buffer to help reduce the impact that delays
on the Brighton line have on the Midland line and vice versa. I believe
that when the systems was divided because of the St.P works, the
punctuality on both of those main lines improved because of the
elimination of this problem.

Robin