On Nov 10, 5:01 pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"W14_Fishbourne" wrote in message

oups.com... On Nov 10, 3:48 pm, asdf wrote:

Are you saying that PAYG is not valid on Southern between these
stations? Where is the National Rail information that says this?

See foot of page at:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...oysterservices

Oyster PAYG is not valid from Watford Junction, full stop, according
to this. Where does it say different?

The question was about Harrow & Wealdstone to Wembley Central. That page
asserts that Oyster is accepted on Silverlink between Harrow & Wealdstone
and Euston (presumably including Silverlink County services) except at
Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead. Admittedly the page is silent about
Southern trains between H&W and Wembley Central, but the average passenger
isn't too clued up about which TOC operates which train, and a passenger who
had touched in at H&W, intending to travel to Wembley Central, and who then
found that there was a disruption on the DC line, but a Southern train which
would call at Wembley Central was just pulling in would expect to be allowed
to travel on it and touch out at Wembley.

Peter

If you buy an Underground ticket to Zone 1 at Ealing Broadway it
doesn't mean you can hop on an FGW service if your tube train's
cancelled. Why shouldn't the same apply here?

Besides, most train announcements include the name of the operator, so
all they have to do is listen to them.

On 10 Nov, 17:12, W14_Fishbourne wrote:
On Nov 10, 5:01 pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:



"W14_Fishbourne" wrote in:

On Nov 10, 3:48 pm, asdf wrote:

Are you saying that PAYG is not valid on Southern between these
stations? Where is the National Rail information that says this?

See foot of page at:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...oysterservices

Oyster PAYG is not valid from Watford Junction, full stop, according
to this. Where does it say different?

The question was about Harrow & Wealdstone to Wembley Central. That page
asserts that Oyster is accepted on Silverlink between Harrow & Wealdstone
and Euston (presumably including Silverlink County services) except at
Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead. Admittedly the page is silent about
Southern trains between H&W and Wembley Central, but the average passenger
isn't too clued up about which TOC operates which train, and a passenger who
had touched in at H&W, intending to travel to Wembley Central, and who then
found that there was a disruption on the DC line, but a Southern train which
would call at Wembley Central was just pulling in would expect to be allowed
to travel on it and touch out at Wembley.

Peter


I've travelled from these platforms at Wembley Central, they are not
contained within the gateline (which only encompasses the DC line
platforms) and I can't recall there being an Oyster card reader there
for this purpose. It's a very good point though, one that I had failed
to consider in an earlier thread despite considering the late night
Silverlink County (to be London Midland) trains from/to Euston that
call at these platforms.

I dare suggest that most passengers wouldn't even consider taking the
Southern train between H&W and Wembley Central given the regular DC
line service (including the Bakerloos) but of course that's not an
answer to this issue.


If you buy an Underground ticket to Zone 1 at Ealing Broadway it
doesn't mean you can hop on an FGW service if your tube train's
cancelled. Why shouldn't the same apply here?

But wouldn't it be great if you could do just that. That's the kind of
thing passengers want. And you can do just that with an LU ticket from
DC line stations between H&W and Queens Park into Euston, as well as
other routes into Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street (and yes I
realise the latter two cases are because LU lines shadow these routes
so they have interavailable ticketing).

On 10 Nov, 17:57, Mizter T wrote:
On 10 Nov, 17:12, W14_Fishbourne wrote:



On Nov 10, 5:01 pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:

"W14_Fishbourne" wrote in:

On Nov 10, 3:48 pm, asdf wrote:

Are you saying that PAYG is not valid on Southern between these
stations? Where is the National Rail information that says this?

See foot of page at:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...oysterservices

Oyster PAYG is not valid from Watford Junction, full stop, according
to this. Where does it say different?

The question was about Harrow & Wealdstone to Wembley Central. That page
asserts that Oyster is accepted on Silverlink between Harrow & Wealdstone
and Euston (presumably including Silverlink County services) except at
Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead. Admittedly the page is silent about
Southern trains between H&W and Wembley Central, but the average passenger
isn't too clued up about which TOC operates which train, and a passenger who
had touched in at H&W, intending to travel to Wembley Central, and who then
found that there was a disruption on the DC line, but a Southern train which
would call at Wembley Central was just pulling in would expect to be allowed
to travel on it and touch out at Wembley.

Peter

I've travelled from these platforms at Wembley Central, they are not
contained within the gateline (which only encompasses the DC line
platforms) and I can't recall there being an Oyster card reader there
for this purpose. It's a very good point though, one that I had failed
to consider in an earlier thread despite considering the late night
Silverlink County (to be London Midland) trains from/to Euston that
call at these platforms.

There are no Oyster readers on Platforms 3-6, and in the late night
periods when Silverlink County/London Midland serve the station, the
readers on the DC platforms are inside the locked part of the station,
so in practice PAYG is not valid.

Another interesting question is if PAYG will be valid on Virgin
between Euston & Watford Junction when special services are running.
(For example, Watford Junction was being advertised as a normal stop
for Virgin trains from Euston yesterday.)

On 10 Nov, 19:28, Matthew wrote:
On 10 Nov, 17:57, Mizter T wrote:

On 10 Nov, 17:12, W14_Fishbourne wrote:

On Nov 10, 5:01 pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:

"W14_Fishbourne" wrote in:

On Nov 10, 3:48 pm, asdf wrote:

Are you saying that PAYG is not valid on Southern between these
stations? Where is the National Rail information that says this?

See foot of page at:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...oysterservices

Oyster PAYG is not valid from Watford Junction, full stop, according
to this. Where does it say different?

The question was about Harrow & Wealdstone to Wembley Central. That page
asserts that Oyster is accepted on Silverlink between Harrow & Wealdstone
and Euston (presumably including Silverlink County services) except at
Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead. Admittedly the page is silent about
Southern trains between H&W and Wembley Central, but the average passenger
isn't too clued up about which TOC operates which train, and a passenger who
had touched in at H&W, intending to travel to Wembley Central, and who then
found that there was a disruption on the DC line, but a Southern train which
would call at Wembley Central was just pulling in would expect to be allowed
to travel on it and touch out at Wembley.

Peter

I've travelled from these platforms at Wembley Central, they are not
contained within the gateline (which only encompasses the DC line
platforms) and I can't recall there being an Oyster card reader there
for this purpose. It's a very good point though, one that I had failed
to consider in an earlier thread despite considering the late night
Silverlink County (to be London Midland) trains from/to Euston that
call at these platforms.

There are no Oyster readers on Platforms 3-6, and in the late night
periods when Silverlink County/London Midland serve the station, the
readers on the DC platforms are inside the locked part of the station,
so in practice PAYG is not valid.

Thanks for confirmation of that, I though they weren't any readers on
those platforms. I'd suggest that if PAYG becomes valid on Southern's
West London Line service (as is suggested elsewhere on this thread by
Paul Corfield) then this omission needs to be dealt with.


Another interesting question is if PAYG will be valid on Virgin
between Euston & Watford Junction when special services are running.
(For example, Watford Junction was being advertised as a normal stop
for Virgin trains from Euston yesterday.)

Interesting indeed. Perhaps, if PAYG will be valid on London
Overground only from Watford Jn (as Paul C's post suggests) then the
easy answer, if London Overground was not running, would be no.

There is a sole Oyster reader on a post near platforms 16/17/18 at
Euston to cater for those rush hour Silverlink County/ London Midland
trains that use those platforms (as PAYG is valid on these fast trains
as far as H&W only - and Paul C's post suggests this will not change).

"Mizter T" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 10 Nov, 19:28, Matthew wrote:
On 10 Nov, 17:57, Mizter T wrote:

On 10 Nov, 17:12, W14_Fishbourne wrote:

On Nov 10, 5:01 pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:

"W14_Fishbourne" wrote in:

On Nov 10, 3:48 pm, asdf wrote:

Are you saying that PAYG is not valid on Southern between these
stations? Where is the National Rail information that says
this?

See foot of page at:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...oysterservices

Oyster PAYG is not valid from Watford Junction, full stop,
according
to this. Where does it say different?

The question was about Harrow & Wealdstone to Wembley Central. That
page
asserts that Oyster is accepted on Silverlink between Harrow &
Wealdstone
and Euston (presumably including Silverlink County services) except
at
Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead. Admittedly the page is
silent about
Southern trains between H&W and Wembley Central, but the average
passenger
isn't too clued up about which TOC operates which train, and a
passenger who
had touched in at H&W, intending to travel to Wembley Central, and
who then
found that there was a disruption on the DC line, but a Southern
train which
would call at Wembley Central was just pulling in would expect to
be allowed
to travel on it and touch out at Wembley.

Peter

I've travelled from these platforms at Wembley Central, they are not
contained within the gateline (which only encompasses the DC line
platforms) and I can't recall there being an Oyster card reader there
for this purpose. It's a very good point though, one that I had failed
to consider in an earlier thread despite considering the late night
Silverlink County (to be London Midland) trains from/to Euston that
call at these platforms.

There are no Oyster readers on Platforms 3-6, and in the late night
periods when Silverlink County/London Midland serve the station, the
readers on the DC platforms are inside the locked part of the station,
so in practice PAYG is not valid.

Thanks for confirmation of that, I though they weren't any readers on
those platforms. I'd suggest that if PAYG becomes valid on Southern's
West London Line service (as is suggested elsewhere on this thread by
Paul Corfield) then this omission needs to be dealt with.


Another interesting question is if PAYG will be valid on Virgin
between Euston & Watford Junction when special services are running.
(For example, Watford Junction was being advertised as a normal stop
for Virgin trains from Euston yesterday.)

Interesting indeed. Perhaps, if PAYG will be valid on London
Overground only from Watford Jn (as Paul C's post suggests) then the
easy answer, if London Overground was not running, would be no.

There is a sole Oyster reader on a post near platforms 16/17/18 at
Euston to cater for those rush hour Silverlink County/ London Midland
trains that use those platforms (as PAYG is valid on these fast trains
as far as H&W only - and Paul C's post suggests this will not change).

I replied to a post further up then found this one. I was at Wembley Central
yesterday and found the station layout very bizarre. I didn't see ant oyster
readers and they routed the Watford train into the northbound platform,
dickheads.

Kevin

On 10 Nov, 21:00, "Zen83237" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

oups.com...



On 10 Nov, 19:28, Matthew wrote:
On 10 Nov, 17:57, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

I've travelled from these platforms at Wembley Central, they are not
contained within the gateline (which only encompasses the DC line
platforms) and I can't recall there being an Oyster card reader there
for this purpose. It's a very good point though, one that I had failed
to consider in an earlier thread despite considering the late night
Silverlink County (to be London Midland) trains from/to Euston that
call at these platforms.

There are no Oyster readers on Platforms 3-6, and in the late night
periods when Silverlink County/London Midland serve the station, the
readers on the DC platforms are inside the locked part of the station,
so in practice PAYG is not valid.

Thanks for confirmation of that, I though they weren't any readers on
those platforms. I'd suggest that if PAYG becomes valid on Southern's
West London Line service (as is suggested elsewhere on this thread by
Paul Corfield) then this omission needs to be dealt with.

(snip)

I replied to a post further up then found this one. I was at Wembley Central
yesterday and found the station layout very bizarre. I didn't see ant oyster
readers and they routed the Watford train into the northbound platform,
dickheads.

Kevin


I don't think Wembley Central was ever really designed to be used as
it is now. The DC line platforms have always had a very regular
service (both Watford- Euston and Bakerloo) and hence at some point in
the fairly recent past were gated. I'm not sure whether the other
platforms were ever in regular use before the current Southern service
(which started back in Connex South Central days and originally
extended up to Rugby). I'm also unsure of how many of these services
called at Wembley Central at the beginning - this service certainly
calls there more often nowadays than it did.

Lastly unless there were radical changes then platforms 3-6 could not
easily be brought within the gateline at Wembley Central - the
passageway the platforms are accessed from (through doors that are
otherwise locked out of use) is a public passageway that provides
access to offices and shops that (I think) would otherwise not have
access. I guess one way of facilitating this would be to divide the
passageway up, but apart from any other issues given the pretty
infrequent service these extra platforms receive I suspect it just
wouldn't be worth it.

A trip down onto those platforms is certainly a somewhat bizarre
experience, I must say - it's a bit of a forgotten dingy hole, made
stranger when a fast Pendolino speeds through on the adjacent fast
lines and the whole underground space suddenly experiences a sudden
vortex of rushing wind. The kind of out of the ordinary unpolished
transport experience that's quite entertaining, in my books at least!

"Mizter T" wrote

I don't think Wembley Central was ever really designed to be used as
it is now. The DC line platforms have always had a very regular
service (both Watford- Euston and Bakerloo) and hence at some point in
the fairly recent past were gated. I'm not sure whether the other
platforms were ever in regular use before the current Southern service
(which started back in Connex South Central days and originally
extended up to Rugby). I'm also unsure of how many of these services
called at Wembley Central at the beginning - this service certainly
calls there more often nowadays than it did.

For many years after 1966 the only passenger use the Wembley Central Fast
and Slow Line platforms got was a call by a very early morning passenger and
news train out of Euston, plus specials for events at Wembley Stadium. When
the Connex Southcentral (now Southern) service started there were no stops
at Wembley Central, and most didn't stop at Harrow & Wealdstone either.

Peter

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 13:28:13 -0800, Mizter T
wrote:

On 10 Nov, 21:00, "Zen83237" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

oups.com...



On 10 Nov, 19:28, Matthew wrote:
On 10 Nov, 17:57, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

I've travelled from these platforms at Wembley Central, they are not
contained within the gateline (which only encompasses the DC line
platforms) and I can't recall there being an Oyster card reader there
for this purpose. It's a very good point though, one that I had failed
to consider in an earlier thread despite considering the late night
Silverlink County (to be London Midland) trains from/to Euston that
call at these platforms.

There are no Oyster readers on Platforms 3-6, and in the late night
periods when Silverlink County/London Midland serve the station, the
readers on the DC platforms are inside the locked part of the station,
so in practice PAYG is not valid.

Thanks for confirmation of that, I though they weren't any readers on
those platforms. I'd suggest that if PAYG becomes valid on Southern's
West London Line service (as is suggested elsewhere on this thread by
Paul Corfield) then this omission needs to be dealt with.

(snip)

I replied to a post further up then found this one. I was at Wembley Central
yesterday and found the station layout very bizarre. I didn't see ant oyster
readers and they routed the Watford train into the northbound platform,
dickheads.

Kevin


I don't think Wembley Central was ever really designed to be used as
it is now. The DC line platforms have always had a very regular
service (both Watford- Euston and Bakerloo) and hence at some point in
the fairly recent past were gated. I'm not sure whether the other
platforms were ever in regular use before the current Southern service
(which started back in Connex South Central days and originally
extended up to Rugby). I'm also unsure of how many of these services
called at Wembley Central at the beginning - this service certainly
calls there more often nowadays than it did.

Lastly unless there were radical changes then platforms 3-6 could not
easily be brought within the gateline at Wembley Central - the
passageway the platforms are accessed from (through doors that are
otherwise locked out of use) is a public passageway that provides
access to offices and shops that (I think) would otherwise not have
access. I guess one way of facilitating this would be to divide the
passageway up, but apart from any other issues given the pretty
infrequent service these extra platforms receive I suspect it just
wouldn't be worth it.

A trip down onto those platforms is certainly a somewhat bizarre
experience, I must say - it's a bit of a forgotten dingy hole, made
stranger when a fast Pendolino speeds through on the adjacent fast
lines and the whole underground space suddenly experiences a sudden
vortex of rushing wind. The kind of out of the ordinary unpolished
transport experience that's quite entertaining, in my books at least!

The current layout originates from what would have been appropriate
for the 1948 Olympics (i.e. as little obstruction as possible between
the Main Line platforms and the street) and at that time would no
doubt have had a sizeable amount of station staff allocated; IIRC the
booking office(s) was/were closer to the street before the current one
was built. Since then however the 1960s Station Square (which also has
access from side roads other than Wembley High Road) has been bolted
on top of the platforms without any attempt to maintain the convention
of all platforms being within one boundary. So the LNWR and LMS
probably had the design right but BR buggered it up by doing things on
the cheap (plus ca change.....). The new footbridge at the London end
goes some way to curing the 1960s bodge but unfortunately it is at the
opposite end of the station to the booking office and barriers so only
gets used on event days when extra staff are drafted in.

On Nov 10, 5:57 pm, Mizter T wrote:


But wouldn't it be great if you could do just that. That's the kind of
thing passengers want.


Sure. I'd also love to go into Sainsbury's and buy some best rump
steak for the same price as brisket!

On Nov 10, 7:57 pm, W14_Fishbourne
wrote:
On Nov 10, 5:57 pm, Mizter T wrote:



But wouldn't it be great if you could do just that. That's the kind of
thing passengers want.

Sure. I'd also love to go into Sainsbury's and buy some best rump
steak for the same price as brisket!

With the railways it's the other way round. When your journey takes
twice as long and involves a bus, you still pay the full train fare.