"kytelly" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 8 Nov, 10:21, "Alan Osborn" wrote:

A far better solution for the International Platforms would be for South
Eastern main line trains which at present have to negotiate the
congested
Borough Market tracks to reach Charing Cross. The Infrastructure to
divert
these is all in place curtesy of Eurostar, and use paths vacated by the
Eurostar trains
Charing Cross route would be downgraded and less congested as only used
by
suburban trains. For the die-hards who want to go to London Bridge or
Charing Cross then they could transfer to Waterloo East.

This sounds a good idea imho, at least while London Bridge/TLK is
being rebuilt

There are 5 main line trains into Charing Cross in the peak hour, or 8 if
you include trains starting from Tunbridge Wells, and nowhere near enough
paths for them between Bickley Junction and Linford Street Junction,
especially as, after pressure from TfL, the E paths have been allocated to
increasing frequencies of Victoria - Beckenham Junction - Orpington
stoppers. Even if trains have to be diverted away from Charing Cross during
Thameslink works, and paths can be found for them on the Chatham line,
Victoria (Chatham side) has spare capacity since the Boat Trains left.

Peter

On Nov 8, 11:05 am, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"kytelly" wrote in message

oups.com...

On 8 Nov, 10:21, "Alan Osborn" wrote:

A far better solution for the International Platforms would be for South
Eastern main line trains which at present have to negotiate the
congested
Borough Market tracks to reach Charing Cross. The Infrastructure to
divert
these is all in place curtesy of Eurostar, and use paths vacated by the
Eurostar trains
Charing Cross route would be downgraded and less congested as only used
by
suburban trains. For the die-hards who want to go to London Bridge or
Charing Cross then they could transfer to Waterloo East.

This sounds a good idea imho, at least while London Bridge/TLK is
being rebuilt

There are 5 main line trains into Charing Cross in the peak hour, or 8 if
you include trains starting from Tunbridge Wells, and nowhere near enough
paths for them between Bickley Junction and Linford Street Junction,
especially as, after pressure from TfL, the E paths have been allocated to
increasing frequencies of Victoria - Beckenham Junction - Orpington
stoppers. Even if trains have to be diverted away from Charing Cross during
Thameslink works, and paths can be found for them on the Chatham line,
Victoria (Chatham side) has spare capacity since the Boat Trains left.

Peter

Can Waterloo International now be regarded as a closed station?

Neill

On Nov 8, 11:17 am, Neillw001 wrote:
Can Waterloo International now be regarded as a closed station?

It was never really a station. Just a few platforms walled off from
the rest of the station.

B2003

On 8 Nov, 11:05, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"kytelly" wrote in message

oups.com...



On 8 Nov, 10:21, "Alan Osborn" wrote:

A far better solution for the International Platforms would be for South
Eastern main line trains which at present have to negotiate the
congested
Borough Market tracks to reach Charing Cross. The Infrastructure to
divert
these is all in place curtesy of Eurostar, and use paths vacated by the
Eurostar trains
Charing Cross route would be downgraded and less congested as only used
by
suburban trains. For the die-hards who want to go to London Bridge or
Charing Cross then they could transfer to Waterloo East.

This sounds a good idea imho, at least while London Bridge/TLK is
being rebuilt

There are 5 main line trains into Charing Cross in the peak hour, or 8 if
you include trains starting from Tunbridge Wells, and nowhere near enough
paths for them between Bickley Junction and Linford Street Junction,
especially as, after pressure from TfL, the E paths have been allocated to
increasing frequencies of Victoria - Beckenham Junction - Orpington
stoppers. Even if trains have to be diverted away from Charing Cross during
Thameslink works, and paths can be found for them on the Chatham line,
Victoria (Chatham side) has spare capacity since the Boat Trains left.

Peter-

Yes; whenever this topic comes up, I comment that the problems are
with the approaches and not the capacity at termini, therefore not
addressed by freeing up more platforms at Waterloo.

The South Eastern side of Victoria is very underused, and Waterloo,
with its long turnaround times compared with somewhere like Charing
Cross, isn't exactly stretched.

The problems are Borough Market, the two two-track routes between
Bromley and Victoria and the two-track route through Queenstown Road
on the "Windsor" side.

It is true that there are capacity problems at Waterloo due to
platform lengths, but the Eurostar platforms are on the wrong side to
help much.

Incidentally, I note an interim stage in plans for Waterloo to be
increasing platform lengths to 10. With most trains in units of 4,
this isn't going to make much difference.

On 8 Nov, 11:50, MIG wrote:

Yes; whenever this topic comes up, I comment that the problems are
with the approaches and not the capacity at termini, therefore not
addressed by freeing up more platforms at Waterloo.

The South Eastern side of Victoria is very underused, and Waterloo,
with its long turnaround times compared with somewhere like Charing
Cross, isn't exactly stretched.

The problems are Borough Market, the two two-track routes between
Bromley and Victoria and the two-track route through Queenstown Road
on the "Windsor" side.

But that doesn't explain why they're not planning to send some
suburban Charing Cross trains to Waterloo via Lewisham and Peckham
Rye. That would help to free up the Borough Market tracks without
adding to congestion between Bromley and Victoria.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On 8 Nov, 11:50, MIG wrote:

Yes; whenever this topic comes up, I comment that the problems are
with the approaches and not the capacity at termini, therefore not
addressed by freeing up more platforms at Waterloo.

The South Eastern side of Victoria is very underused, and Waterloo,
with its long turnaround times compared with somewhere like Charing
Cross, isn't exactly stretched.

The problems are Borough Market, the two two-track routes between
Bromley and Victoria and the two-track route through Queenstown Road
on the "Windsor" side.

But that doesn't explain why they're not planning to send some
suburban Charing Cross trains to Waterloo via Lewisham and Peckham
Rye. That would help to free up the Borough Market tracks without
adding to congestion between Bromley and Victoria.


They probably see no point in doing something temporarily, which can't
continue once the Nine Elms flyover is demolished to rework the station
approaches properly. From the NR documents it has basically already been
decided that the platforms will be used by SWT during the coming Waterloo
rebuild. The WIT report on the DfT site suggests that there is only capacity
for 6-8 trains per hour from the Nine Elms flyover, as it is only single
track.

Paul

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

The WIT report on the DfT site suggests that there is only capacity
for 6-8 trains per hour from the Nine Elms flyover, as it is only
single track.

The flyover is double track. The stretch from there through Vauxhall to
Waterloo is the single track bit.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote

But that doesn't explain why they're not planning to send some
suburban Charing Cross trains to Waterloo via Lewisham and Peckham
Rye. That would help to free up the Borough Market tracks without
adding to congestion between Bromley and Victoria.

It would be so slow that passengers wouldn't use them. The Dartford -
Blackfriars/Holborn trains never loaded well, and were eventually withdrawn,
while the Dartfod - Bexleyheath - Victoria service, a comparatively recent
innovation, are also lightly loaded.

Peter

On 8 Nov, 15:30, "Peter Masson" wrote:
wrote

But that doesn't explain why they're not planning to send some
suburban Charing Cross trains to Waterloo via Lewisham and Peckham
Rye. That would help to free up the Borough Market tracks without
adding to congestion between Bromley and Victoria.

It would be so slow that passengers wouldn't use them. The Dartford -
Blackfriars/Holborn trains never loaded well, and were eventually withdrawn,
while the Dartford - Bexleyheath - Victoria service, a comparatively recent
innovation, are also lightly loaded.

Peter


I would contest that at peak times the Dartford to Victoria service is
loaded pretty heavily, at least it is on leaving Victoria. It also
seems to have a reasonable patronage by day, but then again perhaps my
subjective judgement is a bit out on that one.

On 8 Nov, 15:30, "Peter Masson" wrote:
wrote

But that doesn't explain why they're not planning to send some
suburban Charing Cross trains to Waterloo via Lewisham and Peckham
Rye. That would help to free up the Borough Market tracks without
adding to congestion between Bromley and Victoria.

It would be so slow that passengers wouldn't use them. The Dartford -
Blackfriars/Holborn trains never loaded well, and were eventually withdrawn,
while the Dartford - Bexleyheath - Victoria service, a comparatively recent
innovation, are also lightly loaded.

Peter


I would contest that at peak times the Dartford to Victoria service is
loaded pretty heavily, at least it is on leaving Victoria. It also
seems to have a reasonable patronage by day, but then again perhaps my
subjective judgement is a bit wonky.