One big question mark over Oyster PAYG acceptance on London Overground
has been how fares north of Hatch End - i.e. outside the 6 London
zones - will be handled.

One incredibly obvious place to look, which I've only just thought of
(d'oh!), is of course the TfL "Single fare finder" he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/2007/farefinder/

This doesn't provide any information as to whether there will be any
daily capping for such journeys, nor does it provide a fare table, but
it does provide the Oyster fares that will be charged (though not the
cash fares as "Special cash fares apply to selected London Overground
journeys").

A Watford Jn to Hatch End Oyster PAYG fare is thus £2 peak, £1 off-
peak (bearing in mind that Oyster PAYG peak times are M-F 7am to 7pm).
Meanwhile the National Rail Journey Planner states that an SDS is
£3.10, a CDS £3.00, a SDR £4.80 and a CDR £3.10.

Meanwhile a Watford Jn to Euston Oyster PAYG fare is £5.50 peak, £3.00
off-peak. Meanwhile the NR JP states that an SDS is £7.20, there is no
CDS, an SDR is 11.70 and a CDR is £7.40. Of course the printed tickets
would mean one could travel on the fast London Midland trains straight
into Euston, whilst Oyster PAYG would not be valid from Watford Jn on
these trains.

Presumably Oyster PAYG users will benefit from capping within the
London zones 1-6, so I'd guess that if a passenger reaches a cap using
their their Oyster card within zones 1-6 then if they travel from/to
Watford Jn they'd simply be charged the £2 peak/ £1 off-peak to cover
them from Hatch End (last station in zone 6) up to Watford Jn (or vice
versa).

This is all just speculation, so I might have it very wrong! Anyway
the TfL single fares finder is there for people to fiddle around with.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
ups.com...
One big question mark over Oyster PAYG acceptance on London Overground
has been how fares north of Hatch End - i.e. outside the 6 London
zones - will be handled.

One incredibly obvious place to look, which I've only just thought of
(d'oh!), is of course the TfL "Single fare finder" he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/2007/farefinder/


Presumably Oyster PAYG users will benefit from capping within the
London zones 1-6, so I'd guess that if a passenger reaches a cap using
their their Oyster card within zones 1-6 then if they travel from/to
Watford Jn they'd simply be charged the £2 peak/ £1 off-peak to cover
them from Hatch End (last station in zone 6) up to Watford Jn (or vice
versa).


There ought to be specific capping rates for the bit beyond Hatch End, like
the special capping rates for the A-D bits of the Met surely? The Sep07
tickets and fares booklet will need updating though...

Paul

On Nov 11, 5:25 pm, Mizter T wrote:
One big question mark over Oyster PAYG acceptance on London Overground
has been how fares north of Hatch End - i.e. outside the 6 London
zones - will be handled.

One incredibly obvious place to look, which I've only just thought of
(d'oh!), is of course the TfL "Single fare finder" he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/2007/farefinder/


My playing around suggests that Carpenders Park is in Zone B, Bushey
and Watford High Street are in Zone C and Watford Junction is in Zone
D.

With that zoning I'd expect[1] that the WJ-Euston fast train could be
pulled into the PAYG system without significantly affecting the
revenue generated. My season ticket renewal is 2164 which is the
equivalent of 197 days return journey between 7am and 7pm which much
be the majority of the season ticket uses. There will be a reduction
for PAYG people travelling before 7am or after 7pm but an increase for
PAYG people travelling after 9.30am.

It will be really nice if at least the season ticket can be put onto
oyster rather than the paper ticket. Given that all the train
companies that stop at WJ to pick up passengers also stop at H&W on at
least some of the trains they're going to have to be able to support
oyster anyway on most of the trains.

[1] Wild guess with no data to support it ;-)

Tim.

On Nov 12, 9:52 am, "
wrote:
On Nov 11, 5:25 pm, Mizter T wrote:

One big question mark over Oyster PAYG acceptance on London Overground
has been how fares north of Hatch End - i.e. outside the 6 London
zones - will be handled.

One incredibly obvious place to look, which I've only just thought of
(d'oh!), is of course the TfL "Single fare finder" he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/2007/farefinder/

My playing around suggests that Carpenders Park is in Zone B, Bushey
and Watford High Street are in Zone C and Watford Junction is in Zone
D.

With that zoning I'd expect[1] that the WJ-Euston fast train could be
pulled into the PAYG system without significantly affecting the
revenue generated. My season ticket renewal is 2164 which is the
equivalent of 197 days return journey between 7am and 7pm which much
be the majority of the season ticket uses. There will be a reduction
for PAYG people travelling before 7am or after 7pm but an increase for
PAYG people travelling after 9.30am.

I'd forgotten that most people probably have an all zones travel card.
2464GBP so the equivalent of 226 WJ-Z1 journeys. (I'm assuming that
if you touch out at Euston Mainline and then back in at Euston
Underground that will not form part of a new journey. (Anybody who
already does this journey from H&W will be able to confirm this)

Tim.

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 11, 5:25 pm, Mizter T wrote:
One big question mark over Oyster PAYG acceptance on London Overground
has been how fares north of Hatch End - i.e. outside the 6 London
zones - will be handled.

One incredibly obvious place to look, which I've only just thought of
(d'oh!), is of course the TfL "Single fare finder" he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/2007/farefinder/


My playing around suggests that Carpenders Park is in Zone B, Bushey
and Watford High Street are in Zone C and Watford Junction is in Zone
D.

With that zoning I'd expect[1] that the WJ-Euston fast train could be
pulled into the PAYG system without significantly affecting the
revenue generated.

As I reported elsewhe

"I have a hard copy LO timetable booklet here, that says London Midland do
accept PAYG between Euston and Watford Junction, however it also says
Southern accept PAYG between Clapham Junction and _Willesden_ Junction,
which is odd coz their route doesn't go there..."

Unfortunately the web version splits the timetables into 4 files and doesn't
include the cover notes...

The new ATOC/NR Oyster PAYG leaflet (paper version available at LU & Tube
stations) also shows Watford Junction down to Clapham Junction as being
available for PAYG, apparently platform notices confirm this .

Paul

On Nov 12, 10:44 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...



On Nov 11, 5:25 pm, Mizter T wrote:
One big question mark over Oyster PAYG acceptance on London Overground
has been how fares north of Hatch End - i.e. outside the 6 London
zones - will be handled.

One incredibly obvious place to look, which I've only just thought of
(d'oh!), is of course the TfL "Single fare finder" he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/2007/farefinder/

My playing around suggests that Carpenders Park is in Zone B, Bushey
and Watford High Street are in Zone C and Watford Junction is in Zone
D.

With that zoning I'd expect[1] that the WJ-Euston fast train could be
pulled into the PAYG system without significantly affecting the
revenue generated.

As I reported elsewhe

"I have a hard copy LO timetable booklet here, that says London Midland do
accept PAYG between Euston and Watford Junction, however it also says
Southern accept PAYG between Clapham Junction and _Willesden_ Junction,
which is odd coz their route doesn't go there..."

Unfortunately the web version splits the timetables into 4 files and doesn't
include the cover notes...

The new ATOC/NR Oyster PAYG leaflet (paper version available at LU & Tube
stations) also shows Watford Junction down to Clapham Junction as being
available for PAYG, apparently platform notices confirm this .

I asked at the (silverlink) Euston ticket office on Thursday evening
and I was told that PAYG would not be valid to WJ on the Midland
trains.

Having said that, getting the information from the horses mouth so to
speak isn't reliable.

I wanted to know whether I could use my WJ-London Terminals to
Clapham Junction. The staff at WJ said Yes and No depending on who I
asked. The guard on the train when I said "I've got a ticket here but
could I use this", showing him my gold card said "I don't see why
not". The general concensus here from those in the know was "No I
couldn't use it" (or at least only as far as willesden junction (I
think) and I'd need an extension)

Tim.

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 12, 10:44 am, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


The new ATOC/NR Oyster PAYG leaflet (paper version available at LU & Tube
stations) also shows Watford Junction down to Clapham Junction as being
available for PAYG, apparently platform notices confirm this .

I asked at the (silverlink) Euston ticket office on Thursday evening
and I was told that PAYG would not be valid to WJ on the Midland
trains.

Having said that, getting the information from the horses mouth so to
speak isn't reliable.

I wanted to know whether I could use my WJ-London Terminals to
Clapham Junction.

Thats an entirely different subject really, more suited to a routing guide
question, assuming you're talking about a NR point to point season.

Clapham Junction isn't a London Terminal for such purposes, I think its
previously been suggested that routes towards London are only valid to the
'appropriate' London Terminal, so you can't say you are going to Waterloo or
Victoria and get off early either...

Paul S

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 11:15:43 -0000, Paul Scott wrote:

I wanted to know whether I could use my WJ-London Terminals to
Clapham Junction.

Thats an entirely different subject really, more suited to a routing guide
question, assuming you're talking about a NR point to point season.

Clapham Junction isn't a London Terminal for such purposes, I think its
previously been suggested that routes towards London are only valid to the
'appropriate' London Terminal, so you can't say you are going to Waterloo or
Victoria and get off early either...

Vauxhall (via Clapham Junction) is a valid London Terminal for this
route, but not Victoria or Waterloo.