"Mizter T" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 13 Nov, 19:26, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Zen83237" wrote:

Also does anybody know if oyster is now in use at Watford because the
staff haven't a clue.

Yes - it works fine, just like anywhere else, all I need now is for
journey
history to become alive again, then I'll know how much it cost. The
Southern
guard was completely underwhelmed by PAYG as well, so obviously he knew
all
about it, and had his hand held reader to check my PAYG entry was ok.

Splendid, a report from the front line. I have absolutely read your
posts elsewhere in which you state the new London Overground timetable
booklet says Oyster PAYG is good for journeys on fast London Midland
trains to/from Watford Jn - but I'm wondering if we have any secondary
confirmation of that yet?

Thanks.

I reckon its a typo, I think there are a majority of references to it not
being valid, [see also map below] but I've emailed London Midland to ask as
well, they may have more incentive to get it corrected if they are going to
fend off Oyster users in large numbers. Could be expensive if LO have to
pulp thousands of copies, of course there is also the Southern 'Willesden
Junction' error too.

Over the last couple of days I have used the feedback form on the NR site
and it works. Yesterday they fixed all the broken links for the new TOC's
just after I told them, and after commenting this morning that the National
Rail PAYG map wasn't up to date compared to the printed version, they've put
it right while I was out. Of course it could be a coincidence, but I suspect
if more people actually feedback issues rather than moaning here?

http://nationalrail.co.uk/times_fare...ystercard.html

Also I'm wondering whether the Wembley Central hole has been plugged
at all - i.e. whether there are yet Oyster readers to cater for
journeys to/from platforms 3-6, as there should be.

I didn't go there - it was too dark and scary...

Paul

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:26:02 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Zen83237" wrote in message
.. .

Also does anybody know if oyster is now in use at Watford because the
staff haven't a clue.


Yes - it works fine, just like anywhere else, all I need now is for journey
history to become alive again, then I'll know how much it cost. The Southern
guard was completely underwhelmed by PAYG as well, so obviously he knew all
about it, and had his hand held reader to check my PAYG entry was ok.

This is bound to have been asked before, but presumably if you are leaving
onto the street via the barriers, the platform readers are an irrelevance,
but I saw a few people touching out twice, once on platform, and once at the
barriers - I guess this is allowed for in the software?

It may very well tolerate double touching where the equipment is
identified as being at the same station. Don't know this for certain
though but it could be done using a time based "window" in which
touching out and then out again is permissible.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:26:02 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Zen83237" wrote in message
. ..

Also does anybody know if oyster is now in use at Watford because the
staff haven't a clue.


Yes - it works fine, just like anywhere else, all I need now is for
journey
history to become alive again, then I'll know how much it cost. The
Southern
guard was completely underwhelmed by PAYG as well, so obviously he knew
all
about it, and had his hand held reader to check my PAYG entry was ok.

This is bound to have been asked before, but presumably if you are leaving
onto the street via the barriers, the platform readers are an irrelevance,
but I saw a few people touching out twice, once on platform, and once at
the
barriers - I guess this is allowed for in the software?

It may very well tolerate double touching where the equipment is
identified as being at the same station. Don't know this for certain
though but it could be done using a time based "window" in which
touching out and then out again is permissible.

IIRC you once mentioned that successive touching in is inhibited to prevent
'passback'? So is that only done for successive touches of the same reader
when entering/exiting through a barrier? It always surprised me that some
of the platform validators weren't marked 'interchange only' or something,
but then I'm sure you'd agree there are so many permutations it would be
difficult to catch them all.

The common example of a confusing station being Stratford. Arrive on NR,
touch in on platform get on Central line. Or arrive, as before, touch in go
down steps touch in again at Jubilee barrier. I guess experience users work
all this out for themselves...

Paul S

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:52:35 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Over the last couple of days I have used the feedback form on the NR site
and it works. Yesterday they fixed all the broken links for the new TOC's
just after I told them, and after commenting this morning that the National
Rail PAYG map wasn't up to date compared to the printed version, they've put
it right while I was out. Of course it could be a coincidence, but I suspect
if more people actually feedback issues rather than moaning here?

http://nationalrail.co.uk/times_fare...ystercard.html

Well that and the map of valid routes say it all very clearly indeed.
Thanks for "nagging" and getting it changed. Shame the TfL site is
still not correct in terms of the map but I have sent in a customer
comment highlighting the error.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:12:56 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:26:02 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Zen83237" wrote in message
.. .

Also does anybody know if oyster is now in use at Watford because the
staff haven't a clue.


Yes - it works fine, just like anywhere else, all I need now is for
journey
history to become alive again, then I'll know how much it cost. The
Southern
guard was completely underwhelmed by PAYG as well, so obviously he knew
all
about it, and had his hand held reader to check my PAYG entry was ok.

This is bound to have been asked before, but presumably if you are leaving
onto the street via the barriers, the platform readers are an irrelevance,
but I saw a few people touching out twice, once on platform, and once at
the
barriers - I guess this is allowed for in the software?

It may very well tolerate double touching where the equipment is
identified as being at the same station. Don't know this for certain
though but it could be done using a time based "window" in which
touching out and then out again is permissible.

IIRC you once mentioned that successive touching in is inhibited to prevent
'passback'? So is that only done for successive touches of the same reader
when entering/exiting through a barrier? It always surprised me that some
of the platform validators weren't marked 'interchange only' or something,
but then I'm sure you'd agree there are so many permutations it would be
difficult to catch them all.

The common example of a confusing station being Stratford. Arrive on NR,
touch in on platform get on Central line. Or arrive, as before, touch in go
down steps touch in again at Jubilee barrier. I guess experience users work
all this out for themselves...

I was speculating as to what might happen. In the example of "exiting"
at a validator and then exiting again at a gate (a la Watford) you are
not doing a passback as exit is at two separate machines rather than two
attempts at the same gate / validator.

I am now very out of date with how all the logic works on the validation
equipment. I used to know the logic tables and data flow almost inside
out for magnetic tickets but Oyster and the ability to combine products
will have increased the complexity of the checking software. The system
now has to be an odd combination of both strict and flexible in order to
accommodate "illogical" but understandable actions by passengers -
especially where passengers may encounter validation equipment inside
paid areas or a second set possibly beyond where they've already exited
the system.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On 13 Nov, 21:20, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:52:35 -0000, "Paul Scott"

wrote:
Over the last couple of days I have used the feedback form on the NR site
and it works. Yesterday they fixed all the broken links for the new TOC's
just after I told them, and after commenting this morning that the National
Rail PAYG map wasn't up to date compared to the printed version, they've put
it right while I was out. Of course it could be a coincidence, but I suspect
if more people actually feedback issues rather than moaning here?

http://nationalrail.co.uk/times_fare...ystercard.html

Well that and the map of valid routes say it all very clearly indeed.
Thanks for "nagging" and getting it changed. Shame the TfL site is
still not correct in terms of the map but I have sent in a customer
comment highlighting the error.
--
Paul C

You got there just before me, after I had been chastened by Paul Scott
for not just writing directly to London Midland to ask them about the
Watford Jn PAYG question. Maybe I should do so too - strength in
numbers and all that.

It's great to see the rail map of London starting to turn blue, shame
it's nearly all north of the river. Still, maybe one day!

It's also good to see the map clearly show the separate stopping and
fast services up the WLL.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 13 Nov, 21:20, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:52:35 -0000, "Paul Scott"

wrote:
Over the last couple of days I have used the feedback form on the NR
site
and it works. Yesterday they fixed all the broken links for the new
TOC's
just after I told them, and after commenting this morning that the
National
Rail PAYG map wasn't up to date compared to the printed version, they've
put
it right while I was out. Of course it could be a coincidence, but I
suspect
if more people actually feedback issues rather than moaning here?

http://nationalrail.co.uk/times_fare...ystercard.html

Well that and the map of valid routes say it all very clearly indeed.
Thanks for "nagging" and getting it changed. Shame the TfL site is
still not correct in terms of the map but I have sent in a customer
comment highlighting the error.
--
Paul C

You got there just before me, after I had been chastened by Paul Scott
for not just writing directly to London Midland to ask them about the
Watford Jn PAYG question. Maybe I should do so too - strength in
numbers and all that.

It wasn't aimed at you in person, just everyone generally!

Paul S

On 13 Nov, 21:48, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote:

On 13 Nov, 21:20, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:52:35 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
Over the last couple of days I have used the feedback form on the NR
site
and it works. Yesterday they fixed all the broken links for the new
TOC's
just after I told them, and after commenting this morning that the
National
Rail PAYG map wasn't up to date compared to the printed version, they've
put
it right while I was out. Of course it could be a coincidence, but I
suspect
if more people actually feedback issues rather than moaning here?

http://nationalrail.co.uk/times_fare...ystercard.html

Well that and the map of valid routes say it all very clearly indeed.
Thanks for "nagging" and getting it changed. Shame the TfL site is
still not correct in terms of the map but I have sent in a customer
comment highlighting the error.
--
Paul C

You got there just before me, after I had been chastened by Paul Scott
for not just writing directly to London Midland to ask them about the
Watford Jn PAYG question. Maybe I should do so too - strength in
numbers and all that.

It wasn't aimed at you in person, just everyone generally!

Paul S

No worries, my comments were distinctly intended to be tongue-in-cheek
anyway! Plus I absolutely agree with your "don't just grumble, do
something" sentiments.

I had a staff pass checked by the guard immediately on departure from
Euston and it was certainly accepted on the London Midland class 321/4
unit semi-fast. Bearing in mind it is lettered "Oyster" in big print
and "staff" as an afterthought. Was suprised that the Euston suburban
operation, gateline, ticket office, had been transferred to LM, not
LO. BTW LM seems to be using green as a house colour for publicty -
criminal! Should of course be maroon!

On 14 Nov, 13:07, wrote:
Was suprised that the Euston suburban
operation, gateline, ticket office, had been transferred to LM, not
LO.

Why? LM runs more, much longer trains carrying many more passengers
much further than LO out of Euston Suburban, so therefore it accounts
for the lion's share of both pax and revenue. Also, the long-term plan
is for LO to stop serving Euston, instead diverting DC lines trains
via Primrose Hill to Stratford...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org