On Nov 14, 9:32 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 14 Nov, 19:34, Terry Harper wrote:





On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:12:09 -0000, "David A Stocks"

wrote:
I need to do the above trip next Sunday, arriving around lunchtime and
returning a few hours later. I have an Annual Gold Card valid Brighton -
London Terminals, and an oyster card with a PAYG balance on it.

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit, or would I be
better off doing something else like travelling via Victoria, or taking a
bus from Blackfriars?

Is there a problem with District Line from Blackfriars to Mansion
House, then Northern Line, Bank to Angel?

No, not this weekend at least (i.e. no engineering works on either
line).

And yes, I see what you've done there - suggesting walking at street
level between Mansion House and Bank stations, rather than the long
subterranean walk between Monument and Bank stations.

A couple of principle issues with that:

(1) It's just one stopI The whole idea of a one stop Underground
journey, especially when the two stations are pretty close, just
grates with me - I inevitably think, why not just walk instead?! An
amendment would be to go two stops to Cannon Street and then walk up
Walbrook or St Swithin's Lane to Bank.

Cannon Street is the nearest to Bank (so a shorter walk than from
Monument, street level or not), but it's not open on Sundays.

You have to go via Walbrook and Central Line even on Saturdays I
think, because they close the Northern Line entrance.



(2) There is not AFAIAA any out-of-station interchange between any of
these stations (Mansion House, Cannon Street or Bank/Monument) so you
would be charged for two separate journeys. Changing at Bank/Monument
is an 'in-station' interchange (as it's just one big station complex)
and hence you'd only be charged once for the whole journey (an Oyster
PAYG fare of £1.50).

Of course if a passenger was making several other journeys that day
things would be different, as they'd be likely to reach a daily price
cap and hence the cost of 'extra' journeys would be irrelevant.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

asdf wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:46:32 -0800, Mizter T wrote:

Also I've only just really taken on board that your making a return
journey, presumably all on the same day. In that case the £4 single LU
ticket is obviously no good. A return wouldn't be £8 however, but
instead you'd get a zones 1&2 Day Travelcard at a cost of £5.10.

£4.80 with his Gold Card...

Very good point, I'd overlooked that. And of course for the one gets a
zones 1-6 Day Travelcard. Not that this will help the OP!

MIG wrote:

On Nov 14, 9:32 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 14 Nov, 19:34, Terry Harper wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:12:09 -0000, "David A Stocks"

wrote:
I need to do the above trip next Sunday, arriving around lunchtime and
returning a few hours later. I have an Annual Gold Card valid Brighton -
London Terminals, and an oyster card with a PAYG balance on it.

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit, or would I be
better off doing something else like travelling via Victoria, or taking a
bus from Blackfriars?

Is there a problem with District Line from Blackfriars to Mansion
House, then Northern Line, Bank to Angel?

No, not this weekend at least (i.e. no engineering works on either
line).

And yes, I see what you've done there - suggesting walking at street
level between Mansion House and Bank stations, rather than the long
subterranean walk between Monument and Bank stations.

A couple of principle issues with that:

(1) It's just one stopI The whole idea of a one stop Underground
journey, especially when the two stations are pretty close, just
grates with me - I inevitably think, why not just walk instead?! An
amendment would be to go two stops to Cannon Street and then walk up
Walbrook or St Swithin's Lane to Bank.

Cannon Street is the nearest to Bank (so a shorter walk than from
Monument, street level or not), but it's not open on Sundays.

Sorry, my mistake. I had thought that Cannon Street's opening hours
had changed so it was open all weekend, but I got that quite wrong -
it's just saturdays and only until 1940, but it remains closed on
sundays.

The 2005 press release is he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/4106.aspx

Did Mansion House used to be closed on sundays as well, or am I making
that up?


You have to go via Walbrook and Central Line even on Saturdays I
think, because they close the Northern Line entrance.


Thanks. Despite that, it's still a very convenient interchange.

On Nov 15, 12:48 am, Mizter T wrote:
MIG wrote:
On Nov 14, 9:32 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 14 Nov, 19:34, Terry Harper wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:12:09 -0000, "David A Stocks"

wrote:
I need to do the above trip next Sunday, arriving around lunchtime and
returning a few hours later. I have an Annual Gold Card valid Brighton -
London Terminals, and an oyster card with a PAYG balance on it.

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit, or would I be
better off doing something else like travelling via Victoria, or taking a
bus from Blackfriars?

Is there a problem with District Line from Blackfriars to Mansion
House, then Northern Line, Bank to Angel?

No, not this weekend at least (i.e. no engineering works on either
line).

And yes, I see what you've done there - suggesting walking at street
level between Mansion House and Bank stations, rather than the long
subterranean walk between Monument and Bank stations.

A couple of principle issues with that:

(1) It's just one stopI The whole idea of a one stop Underground
journey, especially when the two stations are pretty close, just
grates with me - I inevitably think, why not just walk instead?! An
amendment would be to go two stops to Cannon Street and then walk up
Walbrook or St Swithin's Lane to Bank.

Cannon Street is the nearest to Bank (so a shorter walk than from
Monument, street level or not), but it's not open on Sundays.

Sorry, my mistake. I had thought that Cannon Street's opening hours
had changed so it was open all weekend, but I got that quite wrong -
it's just saturdays and only until 1940, but it remains closed on
sundays.

The 2005 press release is hehttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/4106.aspx

Did Mansion House used to be closed on sundays as well, or am I making
that up?

I can't remember that. I think it's unlikely, because Temple was
closed on Sundays till fairly recently, and that would have been three
out of four stations closed along that stretch.

In fact, I only recently noticed that Temple is open on Sundays.

You have to go via Walbrook and Central Line even on Saturdays I
think, because they close the Northern Line entrance.

Thanks. Despite that, it's still a very convenient interchange.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, Mizter T wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, David A Stocks wrote:

or taking a bus from Blackfriars?

Good lord no.

I read that and was genuinely perplexed as to why you might say that?

Because the only thing for which my irrational hatred exceeds orbital
railway lines is buses!

IME, buses in central London are a complete waste of time.

Although this is in the City on a sunday, so it should actually be rather
quick - having realised that, i rescind my comment. Or rather, i would, if
you hadn't pointed out ...

on sunday it is only every 15 minutes (and somewhat to my astonishment
only every 20 minutes before 10am)

Which is a bit naff.

That said, given that the frequency is low and traffic should be light, it
is quite likely that it'll manage to keep to its timetable quite well, so
if one is scheduled to turn up soon after the time of the OP's train, this
would be a pretty good option.

However *if* trains were stopping at E&C then your assumption of what
would be quickest ain't right. Journey times wise, the Thameslink just
isn't very nippy through the central London section (something that has
been much commented on). An E&C to Kings Cross Thameslink journey is 17
minutes in duration, whilst E&C to Kings Cross on the Northern line
takes 14 minutes - and E&C to the Angel takes 12 minutes.

Crumbs. I am surprised to hear that.

When one considers this alongside its lesser frequency, Thameslink just
isn't currently that good an option for many journeys across central
London *for those who are not already on the train* - i.e. it's no
UndergrounD line!

No. I'd heard tell of its slowness, but didn't realise it was that bad.

I guess this is why it vanished off the Tube maps (perhaps helped by the
chronic rush hour overcrowding it experiences).

Good point.

Regarding the potential for a hop-off hop-on Oyster at E&C, I'd say it's
a no-no, as the Oyster readers are at the bottom of a flight of stairs
from the high-level platforms. I'd consider it a distinctly athletic
feat if someone managed to to hop off a Thameslink train, get down the
stairs, touch-in, back up the stairs and then hop back on the same
train! Possible perhaps but only if you lined yourself up at the right
door to exit the train, were willing to kill a granny or two on the
stairs and the train was tardy in leaving the station.

You could perhaps use one of the grannies to wedge a door open.

Another option would be for the OP to bring a bicycle on the train, and
ride from Blackfriars to Angel. It's a straight drag up Farringdon Road
and down Rosebery Avenue. Easy to navigate, and the traffic should be
light on a sunday afternoon. Farringdon Road, Charterhouse Street and St
John Street would also be a good route.

tom

--
I am become Life, destroyer of worlds

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:29:38 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

IME, buses in central London are a complete waste of time.

Funny, that. In mine, they are the civilised and pleasant way to
travel in Central London, albeit a bit slower than the use of the
Tube.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:29:38 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

IME, buses in central London are a complete waste of time.

Funny, that. In mine, they are the civilised and pleasant way to
travel in Central London, albeit a bit slower than the use of the
Tube.

And not much slower for some journeys. The bus experience in London has
been transformed in recent years.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"He can't be as stupid as he looks, but nevertheless he probably
is quite a stupid man." Richard Dawkins on Pres. Bush"

In article ,
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:

Neil Williams wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:29:38 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

IME, buses in central London are a complete waste of time.

Funny, that. In mine, they are the civilised and pleasant way to
travel in Central London, albeit a bit slower than the use of the
Tube.

And not much slower for some journeys. The bus experience in London
has been transformed in recent years.

I sometimes use the 45 or 63 bus between King's Cross station and
Blackfriars Road, usually on Saturdays or weekday evenings. The city is
more than quiet enough for it to be the quickest way between those
points.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:18 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

I sometimes use the 45 or 63 bus between King's Cross station and
Blackfriars Road, usually on Saturdays or weekday evenings. The city is
more than quiet enough for it to be the quickest way between those
points.

It isn't a slow way to do that journey even in the morning peak.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

So, which way *did* you go?