On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, David A Stocks wrote:

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit,

I'd probably get off at Blackfriars, then go to Angel via the Circle and
Northern lines and Bank/Monument. Not very clever, but straightforward!

or would I be better off doing something else like travelling via
Victoria,

The train to Victoria takes 10 minutes longer than that to Blackfriars
(comparing the 1100 and 1116 trains, anyway), so that seems a retrograde
move.

or taking a bus from Blackfriars?

Good lord no.

Someone suggested buying a Z12 travelcard in Brighton, and then taking
your route. If you can get that ticket in Brighton, that's absolutely the
right thing to do.

You aren't getting a stop at Elephant & Castle in lieu of London Bridge,
are you? That would be an alternative place to change, and one where you
could touch on in the way. Not quite as quick as via King's Cross,
probably.

tom

--
The literature, especially in recent years, has come to resemble `The
Blob', growing and consuming everything in its path, and Steve McQueen
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Tom Anderson wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, David A Stocks wrote:

(snip)

or taking a bus from Blackfriars?

Good lord no.

I read that and was genuinely perplexed as to why you might say that?
I'm not a number 4 bus regular (though I think I have been on it at
some point) but it goes a pretty direct route, and crucially a route
which will be quiet at the weekend (especially on a sunday).

Having checked the timetable for that route I note however the big
downside, which is that on sunday it is only every 15 minutes (and
somewhat to my astonishment only every 20 minutes before 10am), which
is around half it's normal weekday daytime frequency. Someone who knew
the ropes could try a bit of bus hopping outside St. Paul's tube
station, but that's not really appropriate here.

However, I can't help but think that your rejection of the bus option
was not based on looking at the timetable. Perhaps you know the route,
but otherwise I'm intrigued as to how you might reject the bus option
out of hand like that?

If the journey was up to Kings Cross or St. Pancras from Blackfriars,
and either (a) Thameslink wasn't working or (b) the questioner was
starting their journey from around Blackfriars (as opposed to already
being on the Thameslink train) then the bus option would likely be the
one I'd recommend.

(snip)

You aren't getting a stop at Elephant & Castle in lieu of London Bridge,
are you? That would be an alternative place to change, and one where you
could touch on in the way. Not quite as quick as via King's Cross,
probably.


The special FCC Thameslink engineering works timetable for this sunday
says there are no stops at E&C, otherwise that would certainly have
been the way to go that I'd have recommended.

However *if* trains were stopping at E&C then your assumption of what
would be quickest ain't right. Journey times wise, the Thameslink just
isn't very nippy through the central London section (something that
has been much commented on). An E&C to Kings Cross Thameslink journey
is 17 minutes in duration, whilst E&C to Kings Cross on the Northern
line takes 14 minutes - and E&C to the Angel takes 12 minutes.

When one considers this alongside its lesser frequency, Thameslink
just isn't currently that good an option for many journeys across
central London *for those who are not already on the train* - i.e.
it's no UndergrounD line! I guess this is why it vanished off the Tube
maps (perhaps helped by the chronic rush hour overcrowding it
experiences).

Regarding the potential for a hop-off hop-on Oyster at E&C, I'd say
it's a no-no, as the Oyster readers are at the bottom of a flight of
stairs from the high-level platforms. I'd consider it a distinctly
athletic feat if someone managed to to hop off a Thameslink train, get
down the stairs, touch-in, back up the stairs and then hop back on the
same train! Possible perhaps but only if you lined yourself up at the
right door to exit the train, were willing to kill a granny or two on
the stairs and the train was tardy in leaving the station.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, Mizter T wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, David A Stocks wrote:

or taking a bus from Blackfriars?

Good lord no.

I read that and was genuinely perplexed as to why you might say that?

Because the only thing for which my irrational hatred exceeds orbital
railway lines is buses!

IME, buses in central London are a complete waste of time.

Although this is in the City on a sunday, so it should actually be rather
quick - having realised that, i rescind my comment. Or rather, i would, if
you hadn't pointed out ...

on sunday it is only every 15 minutes (and somewhat to my astonishment
only every 20 minutes before 10am)

Which is a bit naff.

That said, given that the frequency is low and traffic should be light, it
is quite likely that it'll manage to keep to its timetable quite well, so
if one is scheduled to turn up soon after the time of the OP's train, this
would be a pretty good option.

However *if* trains were stopping at E&C then your assumption of what
would be quickest ain't right. Journey times wise, the Thameslink just
isn't very nippy through the central London section (something that has
been much commented on). An E&C to Kings Cross Thameslink journey is 17
minutes in duration, whilst E&C to Kings Cross on the Northern line
takes 14 minutes - and E&C to the Angel takes 12 minutes.

Crumbs. I am surprised to hear that.

When one considers this alongside its lesser frequency, Thameslink just
isn't currently that good an option for many journeys across central
London *for those who are not already on the train* - i.e. it's no
UndergrounD line!

No. I'd heard tell of its slowness, but didn't realise it was that bad.

I guess this is why it vanished off the Tube maps (perhaps helped by the
chronic rush hour overcrowding it experiences).

Good point.

Regarding the potential for a hop-off hop-on Oyster at E&C, I'd say it's
a no-no, as the Oyster readers are at the bottom of a flight of stairs
from the high-level platforms. I'd consider it a distinctly athletic
feat if someone managed to to hop off a Thameslink train, get down the
stairs, touch-in, back up the stairs and then hop back on the same
train! Possible perhaps but only if you lined yourself up at the right
door to exit the train, were willing to kill a granny or two on the
stairs and the train was tardy in leaving the station.

You could perhaps use one of the grannies to wedge a door open.

Another option would be for the OP to bring a bicycle on the train, and
ride from Blackfriars to Angel. It's a straight drag up Farringdon Road
and down Rosebery Avenue. Easy to navigate, and the traffic should be
light on a sunday afternoon. Farringdon Road, Charterhouse Street and St
John Street would also be a good route.

tom

--
I am become Life, destroyer of worlds

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:29:38 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

IME, buses in central London are a complete waste of time.

Funny, that. In mine, they are the civilised and pleasant way to
travel in Central London, albeit a bit slower than the use of the
Tube.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:29:38 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

IME, buses in central London are a complete waste of time.

Funny, that. In mine, they are the civilised and pleasant way to
travel in Central London, albeit a bit slower than the use of the
Tube.

And not much slower for some journeys. The bus experience in London has
been transformed in recent years.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"He can't be as stupid as he looks, but nevertheless he probably
is quite a stupid man." Richard Dawkins on Pres. Bush"

In article ,
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:

Neil Williams wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:29:38 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

IME, buses in central London are a complete waste of time.

Funny, that. In mine, they are the civilised and pleasant way to
travel in Central London, albeit a bit slower than the use of the
Tube.

And not much slower for some journeys. The bus experience in London
has been transformed in recent years.

I sometimes use the 45 or 63 bus between King's Cross station and
Blackfriars Road, usually on Saturdays or weekday evenings. The city is
more than quiet enough for it to be the quickest way between those
points.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:18 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

I sometimes use the 45 or 63 bus between King's Cross station and
Blackfriars Road, usually on Saturdays or weekday evenings. The city is
more than quiet enough for it to be the quickest way between those
points.

It isn't a slow way to do that journey even in the morning peak.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.