I need to do the above trip next Sunday, arriving around lunchtime and
returning a few hours later. I have an Annual Gold Card valid Brighton -
London Terminals, and an oyster card with a PAYG balance on it.

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit, or would I be
better off doing something else like travelling via Victoria, or taking a
bus from Blackfriars?

All ideas most welcome ...

D A Stocks

On 14 Nov, 12:12, "David A Stocks" wrote:
I need to do the above trip next Sunday, arriving around lunchtime and
returning a few hours later. I have an Annual Gold Card valid Brighton -
London Terminals, and an oyster card with a PAYG balance on it.

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit, or would I be
better off doing something else like travelling via Victoria, or taking a
bus from Blackfriars?

All ideas most welcome ...

D A Stocks

Coming from the south a London Terminals ticket is in fact valid as
far as City Thameslink.

At Blackfriars, despite it being gated, there should be Oyster readers
somewhere on the platform - perhaps near the subway - so passengers
transferring from Southeastern trains on a rail-only ticket can touch-
in their Oyster and thus continue travelling northwards on the
Thameslink route without needing to exit and re-enter the gates. You
could thus get off at Blackfriars and try and do this, perhaps even
getting back on the same train.

Don't go to Victoria as the Victoria line is closed all day sunday.

The number 4 bus goes from outside City Thameslink to up to the Angel,
Islington - see this PDF of the Ludgate Circus bus spider map:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...ircus-2026.pdf

If you do this you'd need to ensure you leave City Thameslink station
by the southern Ludgate Hill exit. There isn't much traffic in the
City at the weekend so this might well be a quick route to take.

Otherwise you should be able to buy an extension ticket at Brighton so
you could stay on the Thameslink train and transfer to the Northern
line at KX. The Thameslink line through central London can be treated
as if it were part of the Underground network, so a U1 (i.e.
Underground zone 1) ticket would be good for the whole Thameslink +
Tube journey, and you should be able to buy this from the ticket
office in Brighton.

"Mizter T" wrote

Coming from the south a London Terminals ticket is in fact valid as
far as City Thameslink.

At Blackfriars, despite it being gated, there should be Oyster readers
somewhere on the platform - perhaps near the subway - so passengers
transferring from Southeastern trains on a rail-only ticket can touch-
in their Oyster and thus continue travelling northwards on the
Thameslink route without needing to exit and re-enter the gates. You
could thus get off at Blackfriars and try and do this, perhaps even
getting back on the same train.

Assuming the normal Thameslink Sunday timetables apply, even if you can't
make it back on to teh same train at Blackfriars after touching in, the
train from Sutton should be 5 minutes behind the train from Brighton, so it
won't waste much time to 'rebook'.

Peter

"Mizter T" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 14 Nov, 12:12, "David A Stocks" wrote:


Coming from the south a London Terminals ticket is in fact valid as
far as City Thameslink.


.... but City Thameslink is closed on Sundays.

At Blackfriars, despite it being gated, there should be Oyster readers
somewhere on the platform

I don't think there are - certainly not near enough for you to be able to
re-board the same train (that's what I meant by a *sensible* way to validate
the Oyster card ...). If anyone knows please shout! If only they had
validators on the trains ...

Don't go to Victoria as the Victoria line is closed all day sunday.


Thanks for that!

The number 4 bus goes from outside City Thameslink up to the Angel,
Islington - see this PDF of the Ludgate Circus bus spider map:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...ircus-2026.pdf


That's an option - a short walk from Blackfriars ...

Otherwise you should be able to buy an extension ticket at Brighton so
you could stay on the Thameslink train and transfer to the Northern
line at KX.
I'll be investigating this further ...

Thanks

DAS

On 14 Nov, 13:49, "David A Stocks" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

ups.com...

On 14 Nov, 12:12, "David A Stocks" wrote:

Coming from the south a London Terminals ticket is in fact valid as
far as City Thameslink.

... but City Thameslink is closed on Sundays.

But of course. I forgot about that.


At Blackfriars, despite it being gated, there should be Oyster readers
somewhere on the platform

I don't think there are - certainly not near enough for you to be able to
re-board the same train (that's what I meant by a *sensible* way to validate
the Oyster card ...). If anyone knows please shout! If only they had
validators on the trains ...

The reason I am farily certain that there must be standalone readers
is that they are always provided at interchange stations where
passengers might be entering or leaving PAYG territory - thus far I
haven't come across anywhere where this isn't the case, though I
haven't nosed around Blackfriars since the ticket gates have been
installed. I imagine that an Oyster reader or two could be hidden down
in the subway.

But I absolutely understand - rushing around jumping on and off trains
is hardly a sensible way to do things! However do see Peter Massons
post - he suggests that you could just wait 5 minutes for the next FCC
Thameslink train up from Sutton (if those trains are running to the
normal timetable, and nothing on the FCC website would seem to suggest
otherwise).


Don't go to Victoria as the Victoria line is closed all day sunday.

Thanks for that!

There is a lot of work happening across the LU network at weekends,
and it's certainly caught me out in the past. So I'll retell the
boring but useful advice that it's a good idea to check ahead of
travelling - the URL below should always take you to up-to-date
information on engineering works and planned closures on the
Underground for the forthcoming weekend:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravel...l-weekend.html
(or this page can be accessed via the TfL homepage - "Live travel
news" then "This weekend").


The number 4 bus goes from outside City Thameslink up to the Angel,
Islington - see this PDF of the Ludgate Circus bus spider map:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...blackfriarsand...

That's an option - a short walk from Blackfriars ...

It's not very far at all really.


Otherwise you should be able to buy an extension ticket at Brighton so
you could stay on the Thameslink train and transfer to the Northern
line at KX.

I'll be investigating this further ...


I'd be very interested to know how you get on if you do this. The
first thing is whether they'll manage to sell you this ticket - I can
imagine it might cause a bit of confusion, but then again Brighton is
on the Thameslink route and they should be used to things like this.
If there is trouble the magic words might simply be "zone 1
Underground ticket".

The second thing is how much it costs. I'd imagine it would be £4
single, as that is the price of a printed Underground ticket for
journeys involving zone 1 - however there might be some special
pricing if it's considered an extension to your existing ticket,
though I don't think that would be the case. Perhaps the uk.railway
fares experts can help out here?

Also I've only just really taken on board that your making a return
journey, presumably all on the same day. In that case the £4 single LU
ticket is obviously no good. A return wouldn't be £8 however, but
instead you'd get a zones 1&2 Day Travelcard at a cost of £5.10. Again
the Brighton ticket office should be able to sell you that.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, David A Stocks wrote:

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit,

I'd probably get off at Blackfriars, then go to Angel via the Circle and
Northern lines and Bank/Monument. Not very clever, but straightforward!

or would I be better off doing something else like travelling via
Victoria,

The train to Victoria takes 10 minutes longer than that to Blackfriars
(comparing the 1100 and 1116 trains, anyway), so that seems a retrograde
move.

or taking a bus from Blackfriars?

Good lord no.

Someone suggested buying a Z12 travelcard in Brighton, and then taking
your route. If you can get that ticket in Brighton, that's absolutely the
right thing to do.

You aren't getting a stop at Elephant & Castle in lieu of London Bridge,
are you? That would be an alternative place to change, and one where you
could touch on in the way. Not quite as quick as via King's Cross,
probably.

tom

--
The literature, especially in recent years, has come to resemble `The
Blob', growing and consuming everything in its path, and Steve McQueen
isn't going to come to our rescue. -- The Mole

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:12:09 -0000, "David A Stocks"
wrote:

I need to do the above trip next Sunday, arriving around lunchtime and
returning a few hours later. I have an Annual Gold Card valid Brighton -
London Terminals, and an oyster card with a PAYG balance on it.

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit, or would I be
better off doing something else like travelling via Victoria, or taking a
bus from Blackfriars?

Is there a problem with District Line from Blackfriars to Mansion
House, then Northern Line, Bank to Angel?
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, David A Stocks wrote:

(snip)

or taking a bus from Blackfriars?

Good lord no.

I read that and was genuinely perplexed as to why you might say that?
I'm not a number 4 bus regular (though I think I have been on it at
some point) but it goes a pretty direct route, and crucially a route
which will be quiet at the weekend (especially on a sunday).

Having checked the timetable for that route I note however the big
downside, which is that on sunday it is only every 15 minutes (and
somewhat to my astonishment only every 20 minutes before 10am), which
is around half it's normal weekday daytime frequency. Someone who knew
the ropes could try a bit of bus hopping outside St. Paul's tube
station, but that's not really appropriate here.

However, I can't help but think that your rejection of the bus option
was not based on looking at the timetable. Perhaps you know the route,
but otherwise I'm intrigued as to how you might reject the bus option
out of hand like that?

If the journey was up to Kings Cross or St. Pancras from Blackfriars,
and either (a) Thameslink wasn't working or (b) the questioner was
starting their journey from around Blackfriars (as opposed to already
being on the Thameslink train) then the bus option would likely be the
one I'd recommend.

(snip)

You aren't getting a stop at Elephant & Castle in lieu of London Bridge,
are you? That would be an alternative place to change, and one where you
could touch on in the way. Not quite as quick as via King's Cross,
probably.


The special FCC Thameslink engineering works timetable for this sunday
says there are no stops at E&C, otherwise that would certainly have
been the way to go that I'd have recommended.

However *if* trains were stopping at E&C then your assumption of what
would be quickest ain't right. Journey times wise, the Thameslink just
isn't very nippy through the central London section (something that
has been much commented on). An E&C to Kings Cross Thameslink journey
is 17 minutes in duration, whilst E&C to Kings Cross on the Northern
line takes 14 minutes - and E&C to the Angel takes 12 minutes.

When one considers this alongside its lesser frequency, Thameslink
just isn't currently that good an option for many journeys across
central London *for those who are not already on the train* - i.e.
it's no UndergrounD line! I guess this is why it vanished off the Tube
maps (perhaps helped by the chronic rush hour overcrowding it
experiences).

Regarding the potential for a hop-off hop-on Oyster at E&C, I'd say
it's a no-no, as the Oyster readers are at the bottom of a flight of
stairs from the high-level platforms. I'd consider it a distinctly
athletic feat if someone managed to to hop off a Thameslink train, get
down the stairs, touch-in, back up the stairs and then hop back on the
same train! Possible perhaps but only if you lined yourself up at the
right door to exit the train, were willing to kill a granny or two on
the stairs and the train was tardy in leaving the station.

On 14 Nov, 19:34, Terry Harper wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:12:09 -0000, "David A Stocks"

wrote:
I need to do the above trip next Sunday, arriving around lunchtime and
returning a few hours later. I have an Annual Gold Card valid Brighton -
London Terminals, and an oyster card with a PAYG balance on it.

I feel that the ideal route would be FCC to Kings Cross then Northern line
to Angel, but the Gold Card isn't valid north of Blackfriars, and there
isn't a sensible way of validating the Oyster card for travel between there
and Angel. The option of picking up the Northern Line at London Bridge
doesn't work because engineering works mean FCC aren't going that way. Is
there a paper ticket (effectively a zone 1 return) I can buy before getting
on the train at Brighton to cover the Blackfriars-Angel bit, or would I be
better off doing something else like travelling via Victoria, or taking a
bus from Blackfriars?

Is there a problem with District Line from Blackfriars to Mansion
House, then Northern Line, Bank to Angel?


No, not this weekend at least (i.e. no engineering works on either
line).

And yes, I see what you've done there - suggesting walking at street
level between Mansion House and Bank stations, rather than the long
subterranean walk between Monument and Bank stations.

A couple of principle issues with that:

(1) It's just one stopI The whole idea of a one stop Underground
journey, especially when the two stations are pretty close, just
grates with me - I inevitably think, why not just walk instead?! An
amendment would be to go two stops to Cannon Street and then walk up
Walbrook or St Swithin's Lane to Bank.

(2) There is not AFAIAA any out-of-station interchange between any of
these stations (Mansion House, Cannon Street or Bank/Monument) so you
would be charged for two separate journeys. Changing at Bank/Monument
is an 'in-station' interchange (as it's just one big station complex)
and hence you'd only be charged once for the whole journey (an Oyster
PAYG fare of £1.50).

Of course if a passenger was making several other journeys that day
things would be different, as they'd be likely to reach a daily price
cap and hence the cost of 'extra' journeys would be irrelevant.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:46:32 -0800, Mizter T wrote:

Also I've only just really taken on board that your making a return
journey, presumably all on the same day. In that case the £4 single LU
ticket is obviously no good. A return wouldn't be £8 however, but
instead you'd get a zones 1&2 Day Travelcard at a cost of £5.10.

£4.80 with his Gold Card...