Paul Corfield wrote:

Nice to see it almost finished - just the lift to go.

Shame it never opened while I still lived there but at least it's done! :-)

In message of Tue, 20 Nov
2007 17:30:56 in uk.transport.london, Paul Corfield
writes
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:40:34 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Walthamstow Central tube is closed this Saturday and the Vic line is
closed Sunday. Having pondered the reason why I asked this evening as to
whether the subway link was due to open. The worksite looks perilously
close to "break through" of the final bits of the wall.


And having used Walthamstow this evening I can confirm that both the
ticket office and the subway link are open.

[snip]

[I did not know that POM is "Passenger-operated machine" - LU-speak for
a ticket machine when I met the term a few months ago.]

I look forward to assessing it.

There were porters provided at both ends of the subway link - presumably
to assist those laden with bags or pushchairs / buggies. What I could
not tell was whether there is a mini lift at the ticket hall end of the
subway or not.

I love the thought of the return of the porter - I am old enough to
remember them at rail stations.


Nice to see it almost finished - just the lift to go.


I can't remember whether there are steps to the escalator from the
platform in the routeway - I think not. It sounds as if there will soon
be a big improvement in access for those with limited mobility.
I can't recall the URL where steps are specified. Can anyone help?
--
Walter Briscoe

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 00:08:30 +0000, Dave Newt
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

Nice to see it almost finished - just the lift to go.

Shame it never opened while I still lived there but at least it's done! :-)

Well almost done. I took a longer look this evening. Most oddly the
gateline has two manual gates - one at each end of the array. The one
nearest the office is wide but also quite low. It's only a matter of
time before people decide to step over it :-(

My suspicion about a mini lift at the ticket office end of the subway
was correct. This is behind a small hoarding so it will be possible to
achieve reasonable access, if you can use an escalator, from platform
level to the bus station. Nothing has been provided in terms of lifts
from ticket hall to LU platforms or from ticket hall to NR platforms. I
imagine the latter will have to wait for the possible Network Rail
redevelopment scheme and goodness knows if LU plans to put a lift down
to the Vic Line platforms. I suspect the internal layout of the station
makes that rather a difficult task.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 00:08:30 +0000, Dave Newt
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

Nice to see it almost finished - just the lift to go.
Shame it never opened while I still lived there but at least it's done! :-)

Well almost done. I took a longer look this evening. Most oddly the
gateline has two manual gates - one at each end of the array. The one
nearest the office is wide but also quite low. It's only a matter of
time before people decide to step over it :-(

It's not waiting for a glass plate or anything?

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:15:50 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:02:57 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:47:41 +0000, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

What is planned?
Recently, I found no ticket selling facilities near the gate line weird.
It cries out for a pedestrian tunnel between rail and bus stations.

A tunnel between the bus and tube station!

An enlarged LU ticket office where the old assistance office was. There
are several (3?) LU ticket machines as part of the enlarged office.

Glad to hear that this is all coming along. The 'one' ticket office
always seems somewhat deluged. Did LU run out of money to build a
proper ticket office in the first place, or were the passenger
estimates low enough to think they could get away with directing
everyone to the BR ticket office?

There never was a LU ticket office at Walthamstow Central. It was just
like Richmond or Wimbledon in having TOC only facilities.

When we came to install the gates on the top end of the Vic Line (a
project I was Client for) we had to do something to provide for excess /
penalty fare collection. At the line's request we compromised the manual
gate installation so the window could serve both paid and unpaid sides
in order to provide some more ticket selling capacity (and income to LU,
of course).

We did look at putting a ticket office under the NR tracks but that
would have been hugely expensive and would have undermined the entire
business case for the whole gating scheme given the design and civil
engineering issues. At that time there was no thought of a new bus
station or the subway link.

The gates scheme was not at all popular with WAGN because they wanted
them at their ticket office level so they got their traffic gated as
well. However they weren't prepared to pay anything towards the scheme
nor to adjust their staffing to ensure the gates were operated at all
times - pretty much essential given the high traffic levels so as to
maximise the scheme benefits. Similarly they were enraged at the
provision of a ticket office that could sell tickets from the unpaid
side of the gateline as they felt they'd lose money and commission on
sales. Quite how "one" feel about an even bigger ticket selling capacity
in the new set up I can only guess at.

I'll readily accept the scheme at Walthamstow was a compromise but given
the lack of money we had for investment it was a case of the "art of the
possible" rather than trying for perfection and getting nothing done. I
still feel proud of those gates as I go through every day and know I was
instrumental in getting them installed. Unfortunately we were not able
to do anything about Finsbury Park but a colleague is piloting the
latest scheme through the design stage so perhaps we will get it
expanded and gated at long last!

A question for you Paul. If, when using Oyster PAYG, you were to go
from Blackhorse Road on the Victoria line to Walthamstow Central,
through the gates and then board a 'one' train to Liverpool Street
then you should obviously touch-in on the readers on the 'one'
platforms at Walthamstow Central - otherwise you wouldn't have a valid
ticket.

However let's say you did this anyway, I'm wondering whether the
Oyster system might not just go along with it an extend the Blackhorse
Road - Walthamstow Central journey to Liverpool Street.

Don't know to be honest as I am unclear as to whether Walthamstow
Central is configured as an OSI for PAYG validation. If it was then
provided there was the correct "in" "out" sequence within the time
parameters for interchange then it should charge one through fare. If
you then went out at Liv St NR and in at Liv St LU in the correct time
parameter then you're still on one through PAYG fare provided you reach
your destination in under 2 hours.

It will get interesting to see what happens when "one" extend PAYG to
their London network in January as I suppose you might argue someone
might go Blackhorse Road - Tottenham Hale - Hackney Downs and that
theoretically requires an OSI at Tottenham Hale. Thinking further though
I'd say Tottenham Hale is already like that because PAYG is valid
Tottenham Hale - Stratford on the "one" service there and taking it
further if you then changed to DLR or Jubilee Line at Stratford for
Canary Wharf you should be charged one through PAYG fare for Blackhorse
Road - Canary Wharf.

Perhaps that's a bad example - a similar scenario would be a passenger
touching-in at Walthamstow Central, going to Liverpool Street, failing
to touch-out (let's say the gates were left open) then entering the LU
station through the gates and exiting the system at say Oxford Circus.
I'm inclined to think that the system might tolerate this and just
extend the journey to cover both legs rather than in leading to an
unresolved journey and hence the £4 'charge'.

I'm not aware of any "tolerance" in the system. It's touch in, touch out
for each leg. I would guess (as I've not seen the logic) that the card
journey history is checked at each validation device and provided
entries, exits and journey times are fine then the charge will
eventually align to the overall through PAYG fare when the final value
is added back on at final exit (given that maximum fare is deducted on
each entry stage).

The only other complication to all of the above and especially the
examples from Vic Line to say "one" intermediate stations in Hackney or
even on towards Chingford is quite what the underlying ticket type is.
Zone 1 - Walthamstow is interavailable which means the LU fare and PAYG
rate applies. However interavailability does not apply at intermediate
stops in Hackney on the Chingford line and therefore tube/train rates
should apply. However these are only cash rates at present - I expect
PAYG discounted rate to emerge at the Fares Revision. Similarly the same
might apply for NR only journeys where NR zonal fares are charged - e.g.
Clapton - Highams Park. Quite how the system is going to differentiate
all of this I'm not very sure but it does it today on magnetics with
through ticketing so Smartcards should be able to cope. I wonder if the
passengers can?


I used the Bus rail subway recently to use the NR to Liverpool St and
had to go to the ticket hall to Validate my Oyster Card.

On 26 Nov, 17:06, Martyn Dawe wrote:

(snip previous quoted posts)

I used the Bus rail subway recently to use the NR to Liverpool St and
had to go to the ticket hall to Validate my Oyster Card.


There are Oyster readers (or more precisely validators) on both of the
'one' platforms so you shouldn't have needed to do that.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:54:30 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

On 26 Nov, 17:06, Martyn Dawe wrote:

(snip previous quoted posts)

I used the Bus rail subway recently to use the NR to Liverpool St and
had to go to the ticket hall to Validate my Oyster Card.


There are Oyster readers (or more precisely validators) on both of the
'one' platforms so you shouldn't have needed to do that.

Err no there are not. They are strictly at the entrances to the platform
from each of the "one" ticket offices. The OP is correct.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On 26 Nov, 20:07, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:54:30 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

On 26 Nov, 17:06, Martyn Dawe wrote:

(snip previous quoted posts)

I used the Bus rail subway recently to use the NR to Liverpool St and
had to go to the ticket hall to Validate my Oyster Card.

There are Oyster readers (or more precisely validators) on both of the
'one' platforms so you shouldn't have needed to do that.

Err no there are not. They are strictly at the entrances to the platform
from each of the "one" ticket offices. The OP is correct.
--
Paul C


Misunderstanding alert. I thought Martyn Dawe was saying he had to go
*down* to the Tube ticket hall and validate his Oyster there, so I was
merely trying to point out that Oyster readers existed at overground
platform level on both platforms.

But of course I now see his point, that the subway provides a new
route to the 'one' platforms that doesn't pass any Oyster readers.
That's something I daresay 'one' railway should address before PAYG
goes live on their network in London in January.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:11:20 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

On 26 Nov, 20:07, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:54:30 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

On 26 Nov, 17:06, Martyn Dawe wrote:

(snip previous quoted posts)

I used the Bus rail subway recently to use the NR to Liverpool St and
had to go to the ticket hall to Validate my Oyster Card.

There are Oyster readers (or more precisely validators) on both of the
'one' platforms so you shouldn't have needed to do that.

Err no there are not. They are strictly at the entrances to the platform
from each of the "one" ticket offices. The OP is correct.
--
Paul C


Misunderstanding alert. I thought Martyn Dawe was saying he had to go
*down* to the Tube ticket hall and validate his Oyster there, so I was
merely trying to point out that Oyster readers existed at overground
platform level on both platforms.

But of course I now see his point, that the subway provides a new
route to the 'one' platforms that doesn't pass any Oyster readers.
That's something I daresay 'one' railway should address before PAYG
goes live on their network in London in January.


I entered the subway from the bus station & carried on to the
Liverpool St bound platform !