On Nov 15, 10:15 pm, Tim Woodall wrote:
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:32:35 -0000,
Zen83237 wrote:

I am pretty sure that is all they are there for as they have positioned
themselves half way along the tunnel. Thay have been there all this week. I
am sure that thre time would have been better spent fitting oyter readers at
Wembley.

And all anyone has to say is that they are going for the Southern train
from platform 10 and I don't see what they could do. (It would be
sensible to know the Southern train times as IIRC they're only once per
hour but ...)

Tim.


Good point, though it wouldn't really wash if the passenger had just
come off a London Midland arrival from Euston.

I sincerely hope that these RPIs are having an initial period of just
warning people who've used Oyster PAYG erroneously, rather than PF'ing
them. The situation is undoubtedly confusing, especially given the
Silverlink franchise has split in two - with one half accepting PAYG
and the other not (though it's more complex than that as London
Midland do accept PAYG but only between H&W and Euston, a situaiton
inherited from Silverlink).

On 16 Nov, 00:09, Mizter T wrote:
On Nov 15, 10:15 pm, Tim Woodall wrote:

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:32:35 -0000,
Zen83237 wrote:

I am pretty sure that is all they are there for as they have positioned
themselves half way along the tunnel. Thay have been there all this week. I
am sure that thre time would have been better spent fitting oyter readers at
Wembley.

And all anyone has to say is that they are going for the Southern train
from platform 10 and I don't see what they could do. (It would be
sensible to know the Southern train times as IIRC they're only once per
hour but ...)

Tim.

Good point, though it wouldn't really wash if the passenger had just
come off a London Midland arrival from Euston.

I sincerely hope that these RPIs are having an initial period of just
warning people who've used Oyster PAYG erroneously, rather than PF'ing
them. The situation is undoubtedly confusing, especially given the
Silverlink franchise has split in two - with one half accepting PAYG
and the other not (though it's more complex than that as London
Midland do accept PAYG but only between H&W and Euston, a situaiton
inherited from Silverlink).


What is the signage situation? I am thinking of the requirements that
anyone entering a situation in which penalty fares start to apply,
including when changing trains, must be warned by signs which are
distinguishable from advertising etc.

With Oyster there must be a whole range of ways in which one enters an
area where, in some circumstances, penalty fares may start being
applicable that weren't when they started the journey.

(In fact, if one reasonably defined the unresolved journey price as a
penalty fare, all sorts of questions about signage must be thrown up.)

On Nov 15, 9:28 pm, "Zen83237" wrote:

Well strangely enough I expect the people that I pay thousands of pounds a
year to to lay on some trains once in a while.

....And presumably you would pay nothing if there were no Revenue
Inspectors around!

On 16 Nov, 11:55, MIG wrote:
On 16 Nov, 00:09, Mizter T wrote:

On Nov 15, 10:15 pm, Tim Woodall wrote:

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:32:35 -0000,
Zen83237 wrote:

I am pretty sure that is all they are there for as they have positioned
themselves half way along the tunnel. Thay have been there all this week. I
am sure that thre time would have been better spent fitting oyter readers at
Wembley.

And all anyone has to say is that they are going for the Southern train
from platform 10 and I don't see what they could do. (It would be
sensible to know the Southern train times as IIRC they're only once per
hour but ...)

Tim.

Good point, though it wouldn't really wash if the passenger had just
come off a London Midland arrival from Euston.

I sincerely hope that these RPIs are having an initial period of just
warning people who've used Oyster PAYG erroneously, rather than PF'ing
them. The situation is undoubtedly confusing, especially given the
Silverlink franchise has split in two - with one half accepting PAYG
and the other not (though it's more complex than that as London
Midland do accept PAYG but only between H&W and Euston, a situaiton
inherited from Silverlink).

What is the signage situation? I am thinking of the requirements that
anyone entering a situation in which penalty fares start to apply,
including when changing trains, must be warned by signs which are
distinguishable from advertising etc.

With Oyster there must be a whole range of ways in which one enters an
area where, in some circumstances, penalty fares may start being
applicable that weren't when they started the journey.

But is this any different from the situation pre-Oyster, where one
could find oneself changing trains at an interchange and thus entering
a Penalty Fares area.

I can't specifically say about WJ, but I can say that LO stations have
an abundance of penalty fares warning posters displayed all over the
place, and they are distinctly not


(In fact, if one reasonably defined the unresolved journey price as a
penalty fare, all sorts of questions about signage must be thrown up.)

I'd think there'd be several reasons why the £4 "max cash fare"
'charge' can't be called a penalty fare, not least because it's is
applied by an automated system rather than issued by a person.

On 16 Nov, 18:32, Mizter T wrote:
On 16 Nov, 11:55, MIG wrote:





On 16 Nov, 00:09, Mizter T wrote:

On Nov 15, 10:15 pm, Tim Woodall wrote:

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:32:35 -0000,
Zen83237 wrote:

I am pretty sure that is all they are there for as they have positioned
themselves half way along the tunnel. Thay have been there all this week. I
am sure that thre time would have been better spent fitting oyter readers at
Wembley.

And all anyone has to say is that they are going for the Southern train
from platform 10 and I don't see what they could do. (It would be
sensible to know the Southern train times as IIRC they're only once per
hour but ...)

Tim.

Good point, though it wouldn't really wash if the passenger had just
come off a London Midland arrival from Euston.

I sincerely hope that these RPIs are having an initial period of just
warning people who've used Oyster PAYG erroneously, rather than PF'ing
them. The situation is undoubtedly confusing, especially given the
Silverlink franchise has split in two - with one half accepting PAYG
and the other not (though it's more complex than that as London
Midland do accept PAYG but only between H&W and Euston, a situaiton
inherited from Silverlink).

What is the signage situation? I am thinking of the requirements that
anyone entering a situation in which penalty fares start to apply,
including when changing trains, must be warned by signs which are
distinguishable from advertising etc.

With Oyster there must be a whole range of ways in which one enters an
area where, in some circumstances, penalty fares may start being
applicable that weren't when they started the journey.

But is this any different from the situation pre-Oyster, where one
could find oneself changing trains at an interchange and thus entering
a Penalty Fares area.


Only in the sense that the validity or non of a particular ticket type
has added to the number of situations where such a change might arise.



I can't specifically say about WJ, but I can say that LO stations have
an abundance of penalty fares warning posters displayed all over the
place, and they are distinctly not



(In fact, if one reasonably defined the unresolved journey price as a
penalty fare, all sorts of questions about signage must be thrown up.)

I'd think there'd be several reasons why the £4 "max cash fare"
'charge' can't be called a penalty fare, not least because it's is
applied by an automated system rather than issued by a person.


I'd have to check back to the relevant Act of Parliament to see if
automated systems were excluded but, that aside, it does seem to me to
be logically the same thing as a penalty fare.

That is, it's a fare rather than a fine, and it's issued in situations
where you haven't complied with whatever restrictions would allow a
discounted fare.