From eWatford Observer 16/11/07

Oyster agreement

London Midland has agreed to accept Oyster cards on train services
between Watford Junction and London Euston.

In a statement received by The Watford Observer this afternoon, the
train operator said: "London Midland is pleased to confirm that Oyster
Pay As You Go (PAYG) can be used on its services between Watford
Junction and London Euston and all intermediate stations from this
Sunday (November 18th).

"An agreement reached with Transport for London (TfL) means that the
smartcards' will now be accepted between Watford Junction and Euston
and stations in between those destinations from that date."

The decision followed campaigning by commuters, The Watford Observer,
Watford MP Claire Ward and representatives of other political parties
in the area.
On Thursday London Midland retracted a similar decision but it is
thought that this one is final.

Miss Ward said: "I am delighted with the decision. It is a sensible
arrangement. I think that pressure exerted early on showed that we in
Watford were not prepared to put with the nonsense of only being able
to use Oyster on some services.

"Hopefully now people will get the savings and service that they
deserve."

..................................................

.................................................

John Burke

WRUG

On Nov 17, 3:26 pm, burkey wrote:


"Hopefully now people will get the savings and service that they
deserve."


I fear that Ms Ward is mistaken if she thinks that the availability of
Oyster PAYG from Watford Junction will mean lower fares. PAYG fares
will be the same as for paper tickets from Watford Junction.

"W14_Fishbourne" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 3:26 pm, burkey wrote:


"Hopefully now people will get the savings and service that they
deserve."


I fear that Ms Ward is mistaken if she thinks that the availability of
Oyster PAYG from Watford Junction will mean lower fares. PAYG fares
will be the same as for paper tickets from Watford Junction.

Presumably, if they make other journeys, such as tube onwards from Euston,
PAYG price-capping will give them a daily fare 50p less than a ODTC from
Watford Junction.

Peter

"W14_Fishbourne" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 3:26 pm, burkey wrote:


"Hopefully now people will get the savings and service that they
deserve."


I fear that Ms Ward is mistaken if she thinks that the availability of
Oyster PAYG from Watford Junction will mean lower fares. PAYG fares
will be the same as for paper tickets from Watford Junction.

Perhaps she was taken in by the earlier spiel about Oyster always being
cheaper. I see the website now uses the expression 'generally cheaper'.
Didn't TfL catch a cold with the Advertising Standards people a year ot two
back by failing to make clear in their advertising that Oster PAYG did not
automatically ensure the lowest fares, because the availability of Oyster
doesn't actually remove the option to use (for example) a rail CDR, or at
weekends a CDR with Network Card discount? One of the recent TfL leaflets
does actually make this clear, but I'm not sure all Oyster 'bumph' is as
helpful...

Paul

"burkey" wrote in message
...
From eWatford Observer 16/11/07

Oyster agreement

London Midland has agreed to accept Oyster cards on train services
between Watford Junction and London Euston.

In a statement received by The Watford Observer this afternoon, the
train operator said: "London Midland is pleased to confirm that Oyster
Pay As You Go (PAYG) can be used on its services between Watford
Junction and London Euston and all intermediate stations from this
Sunday (November 18th).


I hope TfL haven't pulped all those Overground timetables, that were a week
early with this decision...

Paul S

On 17 Nov, 16:03, W14_Fishbourne wrote:
On Nov 17, 3:26 pm, burkey wrote:



"Hopefully now people will get the savings and service that they
deserve."

I fear that Ms Ward is mistaken if she thinks that the availability of
Oyster PAYG from Watford Junction will mean lower fares. PAYG fares
will be the same as for paper tickets from Watford Junction.

How will differential fares for London Midland and London Overground
journeys be achieved? By measuring the time between touching in and
out between Watford Junction and Euston or by having touch pads which
record a different fare for the DC and AC platforms?

Jonathan

wrote in message
...
On 17 Nov, 16:03, W14_Fishbourne wrote:
On Nov 17, 3:26 pm, burkey wrote:

"Hopefully now people will get the savings and service that they
deserve."

I fear that Ms Ward is mistaken if she thinks that the availability of
Oyster PAYG from Watford Junction will mean lower fares. PAYG fares
will be the same as for paper tickets from Watford Junction.

How will differential fares for London Midland and London Overground
journeys be achieved?

They don't need to be differential fares, they weren't previously with
Silverlink were they?

They are 'special fares' because they are outside the normal ' zones'. A bit
like beyond Moor Park on the Met, but so far a bit of a secret, unless you
use the single fares finder. Nothing appears to have been published yet
about how capping will operate, either.

Paul S

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 16:08:22 -0000,
Peter Masson wrote:

"W14_Fishbourne" wrote in message
...
On Nov 17, 3:26 pm, burkey wrote:


"Hopefully now people will get the savings and service that they
deserve."


I fear that Ms Ward is mistaken if she thinks that the availability of
Oyster PAYG from Watford Junction will mean lower fares. PAYG fares
will be the same as for paper tickets from Watford Junction.

Presumably, if they make other journeys, such as tube onwards from Euston,
PAYG price-capping will give them a daily fare 50p less than a ODTC from
Watford Junction.

Or possibly not. The ODTC from Watford Junction is not a ODTC from
Watford Junction but more like an all zones TC plus a (return) boundary
Z6 to WJ extension (I don't know what the situation is with the stations
between Hatch End and Watford High Street)

When you exit WJ with your ODTC the barrier eats the ticket and you
cannot use it again.

While it's never affected me, there are cases where it would be cheaper
to buy a ODTC from Watford Junction plus a return to Harrow and
Wealdstone and then be careful which ticket you used when you exited WJ
for the first time if you were making multiple trips into London during
the day.

I don't see how they can possibly charge differential fares between WJ
and Euston depending on the train you took. It's possible to do a WJ to
H&W on Southern plus H&W to Euston on LM currently and, theoretically at
least, if one or other train is slightly delayed to allow the connection
to work perfectly, manage the journey as fast or faster than the average
person manages the WJ to Euston non-stop service.

I also always sit at the extreme rear of the train going into Euston
(I've got my Brompton with me and by sitting at the extreme rear I'm not
trying to unfold the bike while people are walking past me and I don't
end up in the middle of the crowds trying to get through the barriers at
Euston) and this probably adds five minute onto the journey as compared
to someone who stands in exactly the right point to run for the barriers
when the train arrives at Euston.

So my expectation is that a WJ to Zone 1 commuter travelling between 7am
and 7pm will now pay 11GBP/day on PAYG. For someone (me :-( ) who gets
28 days holiday a year including bank holidays and IIRC a WJ all zones
gold card is 2464 it works out at 10.62 per working day. (Today I did
go into London with someone to see them off on a train from KX so I do
occasionally make extra journeys but I also occasionally cycle into
work)

For someone (me :-) ) who always makes at least one of their journeys
before 7am or after 7pm it will be cheaper by PAYG. (If this is right
it's also an extra incentive to get me swimming again in the mornings
and start catching a train before 7am again). Although my gold card is
2064 because I don't use the tube so I need to do both journeys offpeak
to save money (assuming the occasional trip into London at the weekend
as well)

But the fact that PAYG is available to/from WJ regardless of exactly how
much it costs is great news. Now I can just have a couple of oyster
cards with auto topup setup and when I have people to visit there's no
faffing around required at all.

Tim.


--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

On 17 Nov, 18:27, "Paul Scott" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On 17 Nov, 16:03, W14_Fishbourne wrote:
On Nov 17, 3:26 pm, burkey wrote:

"Hopefully now people will get the savings and service that they
deserve."

I fear that Ms Ward is mistaken if she thinks that the availability of
Oyster PAYG from Watford Junction will mean lower fares. PAYG fares
will be the same as for paper tickets from Watford Junction.

How will differential fares for London Midland and London Overground
journeys be achieved?

They don't need to be differential fares, they weren't previously with
Silverlink were they?

They are 'special fares' because they are outside the normal ' zones'. A bit
like beyond Moor Park on the Met, but so far a bit of a secret, unless you
use the single fares finder. Nothing appears to have been published yet
about how capping will operate, either.

Paul S

They do need to be differential fare if the statement that PAYG =
Paper Ticket is true

The single fare finder says:

London Euston [London Overground] to Watford Junction

Oyster single fare
£5.50 Monday to Friday from 0700 and before 1900.
£3.00 At all other times including public holidays.

Cash single fare
Special cash fares apply to selected London Overground journeys.

The NR single fare for the same journey is £7.20 (first class is
£11.00).
The NR return fare is £7.40, standard day return is £11.70.

An off-peak single is quite different from the current cash single
fare.

The definition of peak is pretty different too. Clearly, no-one in
their right mind would use Oyster for a simple return journey after
the NR-defined peak [1]. Someone travelling into London before 0700
(is that restriction really early enough - it should be more like 0600
once Oyster expands into the suburbs?) and out after 1900 would be
able to make quite a saving.


Jonathan

[1] depending on how capping works after 09:30.

"Tim Woodall" wrote in message
e.uk...
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 16:08:22 -0000,
Peter Masson wrote:

Presumably, if they make other journeys, such as tube onwards from
Euston,
PAYG price-capping will give them a daily fare 50p less than a ODTC from
Watford Junction.

Or possibly not. The ODTC from Watford Junction is not a ODTC from
Watford Junction but more like an all zones TC plus a (return) boundary
Z6 to WJ extension (I don't know what the situation is with the stations
between Hatch End and Watford High Street)

You've raised a very vaild point. In all these discussions people sometimes
appear to have forgotten one of the fundamental issues, that WJ is not in
the Greater London area, or the London fare (travelcard) zones. The WJ all
zone travelcard is fundamentally the same product that someone would buy
from Southampton, or Northampton, its just that the 'rail part' of the
journey is particularly short...

I expect the same might be true for High St, Bushey and Carpenders Park, but
IIRC a previous discussion indicated there were special features of the
similar 'ABCD' area to do with NR travelcards, we possibly need someone like
Barry Salter to explain it all again...

Paul S