Paul Scott wrote:

You are mistaken - the NLL is still part of NR, as stated in:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...avel-guide.pdf

"London Overground is part of the National Rail network and the National
Rail Conditions of Carriage apply for journeys made on it unless we say
otherwise in this ticketing and travel guide."

True but isn't "National Rail" used in customer interface terminology to
encompass what isn't Overground (or rather what Joe Public calls "the
overground")?

wrote:

And if Ken gets his way and begins to take on a range of other NR
services, I think colour coding by terminal would keep things clear.
This is what happens on the Parisian map, I think. The thin black
tramlines could be kept for longer distance stopping services.

How workable is that for lines that potentially serve three or more
different terminals? (e.g. Epsom to Ashtead which Livingstone seems to want
to get his claws into.)

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message
...
Paul Scott wrote:

You are mistaken - the NLL is still part of NR, as stated in:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...avel-guide.pdf

"London Overground is part of the National Rail network and the National
Rail Conditions of Carriage apply for journeys made on it unless we say
otherwise in this ticketing and travel guide."

True but isn't "National Rail" used in customer interface terminology to
encompass what isn't Overground (or rather what Joe Public calls "the
overground")?

Yes - and I think they've painted themselves into a corner with this. Many
of their 'customer' publications refer to LO and 'other National Rail'.
Often the tone of TfL press releases etc is to separate 'new improved London
Overground' from grotty old 'National Rail', whereas the term 'overground'
had a well known meaning of its own already, and that's without bringing the
ill fated 'Overground Network' into the discussion. Its all a bit
inconsistent...

Paul

Paul Scott wrote:

According to that Overground 'branding guide' someone found and
linked to a while back, all the actual stations except those on the
existing ELL keep their 'National Rail' (BR) symbol, as they are
still on the national network.

But there are separate rules for line maps on platforms etc, and the
NR symbol only occurs at the 'end stations' where there is parallel
running, or at an interchange with the rest of the NR network.

Highbury & Islington is a conundrum. Whereas Moorgate and Old Street have
"no weekend service" by their BR logos, H&I doesn't. I think this is because
H&I does have full time service on the NR line which is shown on the map,
even though the only reason there is an NR symbol on H&I at all is because
of the weekday-only NR line which is not shown on the map.

Richard J. wrote:
wrote:
As Innes Ferguson, TFL design director said at the LT Museum on
24/9/7, the "Overground" brand made [sense] since as "you
wouldn't expect to see 'Underground' on a roundel outside a
station in Brighton".

Nor would you at Amersham, 147 m (490 ft) above sea level, but people
seem to have accepted it for many years.

?

All "Underground" stations have surface buildings which are above sea level,
AFAIK.


Speaking of which, could someone who is knowledgeable of both Hampstead and
Kiev please fix the depth references on this page...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampstead_tube_station

wrote:
And if Ken gets his way and begins to take on a range of other NR
services, I think colour coding by terminal would keep things clear.
This is what happens on the Parisian map, I think. The thin black
tramlines could be kept for longer distance stopping services.

It's the RATP's Ile-de-France map that's like that, with a different colour
for the lines feeding into Gares du Nord, de l'Est, de Lyon, Montparnasse,
and St-Lazare. It also manages to fit in on one map, with all stations
marked, the RER lines, the Métro and the tram routes, plus the boundaries of
the 8 zones. And a night bus map for Paris. And then there's the back of
the map ...

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Nov 23, 2:34 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
wrote:
And if Ken gets his way and begins to take on a range of other NR
services, I think colour coding by terminal would keep things clear.
This is what happens on the Parisian map, I think. The thin black
tramlines could be kept for longer distance stopping services.

It's the RATP's Ile-de-France map that's like that, with a different colour
for the lines feeding into Gares du Nord, de l'Est, de Lyon, Montparnasse,
and St-Lazare. It also manages to fit in on one map, with all stations
marked, the RER lines, the Métro and the tram routes, plus the boundaries of
the 8 zones. And a night bus map for Paris. And then there's the back of
the map ...

Exactly. That's what I want. Tom, you got that? Won't take you too
long, will it?

Jonn

wrote:
On Nov 23, 2:34 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
wrote:
And if Ken gets his way and begins to take on a range of other NR
services, I think colour coding by terminal would keep things clear.
This is what happens on the Parisian map, I think. The thin black
tramlines could be kept for longer distance stopping services.

It's the RATP's Ile-de-France map that's like that, with a different
colour for the lines feeding into Gares du Nord, de l'Est, de Lyon,
Montparnasse, and St-Lazare. It also manages to fit in on one map,
with all stations marked, the RER lines, the Métro and the tram
routes, plus the boundaries of the 8 zones. And a night bus map for
Paris. And then there's the back of the map ...

Exactly. That's what I want. Tom, you got that? Won't take you too
long, will it?

How does this differ from the map which you produced?

On Nov 23, 3:04 pm, "John Rowland"
wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 23, 2:34 pm, "Richard J." wrote:
wrote:
And if Ken gets his way and begins to take on a range of other NR
services, I think colour coding by terminal would keep things clear.
This is what happens on the Parisian map, I think. The thin black
tramlines could be kept for longer distance stopping services.

It's the RATP's Ile-de-France map that's like that, with a different
colour for the lines feeding into Gares du Nord, de l'Est, de Lyon,
Montparnasse, and St-Lazare. It also manages to fit in on one map,
with all stations marked, the RER lines, the Métro and the tram
routes, plus the boundaries of the 8 zones. And a night bus map for
Paris. And then there's the back of the map ...

Exactly. That's what I want. Tom, you got that? Won't take you too
long, will it?

How does this differ from the map which you produced?


I found that when I was looking for something else earlier. It's a
source of some terror for me the amount of time I spent on that when I
should have been worrying about A-levels and throwing up outside pubs.

Jonn

wrote:
On Nov 23, 3:04 pm, "John Rowland"
wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 23, 2:34 pm, "Richard J."
wrote:
wrote:
And if Ken gets his way and begins to take on a range of other NR
services, I think colour coding by terminal would keep things
clear. This is what happens on the Parisian map, I think. The
thin black tramlines could be kept for longer distance stopping
services.

It's the RATP's Ile-de-France map that's like that, with a
different colour for the lines feeding into Gares du Nord, de
l'Est, de Lyon, Montparnasse, and St-Lazare. It also manages to
fit in on one map, with all stations marked, the RER lines, the
Métro and the tram routes, plus the boundaries of the 8 zones.
And a night bus map for Paris. And then there's the back of the
map ...

Exactly. That's what I want. Tom, you got that? Won't take you too
long, will it?

How does this differ from the map which you produced?

I found that when I was looking for something else earlier. It's a
source of some terror for me the amount of time I spent on that when I
should have been worrying about A-levels and throwing up outside pubs.

I think you just misunderstood "technicolour yawn".