On 24 Nov, 22:28, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

...

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:37:04 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

What does the NLL do at Stratford now?

What it has always done - have platforms adjacent to the Jubilee Line.
The new upper level platforms near platform 12 are under construction.
There are full details in the new Modern Railways (Dec 2007)

To add to what Paul C has said, they still use both platforms most of the
day, the trains arriving in platform 2, then doing a shunt move down the
line to the south and then returning into platform 1 for departure. There
are a few exceptions to this in the early morning IIRC.

That Modern Railway drawing seems to have got its arrows and descriptions a
bit out of kilter though, the drawings on the TfL projects site are much
more readable...

Paul S

Any chance of a link to these pics on the TfL site as I can't seem to
find them?
Thanks
Dazz285

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 03:01:06 -0800 (PST), Dazz285
wrote:


Any chance of a link to these pics on the TfL site as I can't seem to
find them?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...way-Layout.pdf
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...orm-Layout.pdf

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Nov 24, 11:05 am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 20:26:59 GMT, "Richard J."

wrote:
It was an example of a station with surface-level platforms so far above sea
level that that being on the "Underground" is arguably more bizarre than
Brighton being similarly branded.

In Hamburg, there is a section (Roedingsmarkt-Rathaus, roughly) where
the U-bahn is elevated about 5m above the ground, and the S-Bahn is
underground...

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

We'll soon have a situation like this in London, with the London
Underground on the surface and on top of the London Overground (in
tunnel) at Whitechapel.

Tom Anderson wrote:

And if Ken gets his way and begins to take on a range of other NR
services, I think colour coding by terminal would keep things clear.
This is what happens on the Parisian map, I think. The thin black
tramlines could be kept for longer distance stopping services.

How workable is that for lines that potentially serve three or more
different terminals? (e.g. Epsom to Ashtead which Livingstone seems to
want to get his claws into.)

Seems to work for Barking to Aldgate East, Paddington to Baker Street,
etc.

Yes but there's multiple routes in both directions with Dorking (or a run on
to Horsham) and Guildford (sometimes stopping short at Effingham Junction)
the country terminals for the various services and very flexible route
combinations - for instance I've only seen a Crystal Palace to Epsom through
service in the late evening.

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:37:04 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

What does the NLL do at Stratford now?

What it has always done - have platforms adjacent to the Jubilee Line.
The new upper level platforms near platform 12 are under construction.
There are full details in the new Modern Railways (Dec 2007)

Ah, so this is indeed an Underground-over-Overground situation, as at
Whitechapel. Excellent!

tom

--
20 Minutes into the Future

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

And if Ken gets his way and begins to take on a range of other NR
services, I think colour coding by terminal would keep things clear.
This is what happens on the Parisian map, I think. The thin black
tramlines could be kept for longer distance stopping services.

How workable is that for lines that potentially serve three or more
different terminals? (e.g. Epsom to Ashtead which Livingstone seems to
want to get his claws into.)

Seems to work for Barking to Aldgate East, Paddington to Baker Street,
etc.

Yes but there's multiple routes in both directions with Dorking (or a
run on to Horsham) and Guildford (sometimes stopping short at Effingham
Junction) the country terminals for the various services and very
flexible route combinations - for instance I've only seen a Crystal
Palace to Epsom through service in the late evening.

Hang on, i'm colouring by terminal at the London end. I'm not quite sure
i've got what you mean; i'm not very familiar with the trains that far out
(which won't be on my map, incidentally!). Could you expand on the cases
which you think present difficulties?

Note to self - here's the colour scheme i worked out:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....fd93b9394df4fd

tom

--
20 Minutes into the Future

Tom Anderson wrote:

Yes but there's multiple routes in both directions with Dorking (or a run
on to Horsham) and Guildford (sometimes stopping short at Effingham
Junction) the country terminals for the various services and very
flexible route combinations - for instance I've only seen a Crystal
Palace to Epsom through service in the late evening.

Hang on, i'm colouring by terminal at the London end. I'm not quite sure
i've got what you mean; i'm not very familiar with the trains that far out
(which won't be on my map, incidentally!).

Ah - I was thinking of the lines on the London Connections map which goes
slightly further out.

Could you expand on the cases which you think present difficulties?

A lot of the Southern routes are rather complicated to map because there are
many different combinations of routes and terminals available, with several
points where lines diverge and rejoin, with some particular through services
and destinations only running at peak hours or late hours and so forth. For
instance trains from Epsom Downs can run to either Victoria or London
Bridge, with virtually all routes (via Carshalton, Selhurst and Crystal
Palace) shared with routes that lead to London Bridge. Historically Epsom
Downs has tended to be served directly by only one London terminal but this
has changed from time to time. Then there's the problem of fast and stopping
services over a section of track that run to different terminals. I'm not
sure how a map could be simply coloured by London terminal destinations
without descending into trying to map the various combinations to give a
clear idea as to what actually goes where.

And how would you handle Victoria-London Bridge services?

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote:

Yes but there's multiple routes in both directions with Dorking (or
a run on to Horsham) and Guildford (sometimes stopping short at
Effingham Junction) the country terminals for the various services
and very flexible route combinations - for instance I've only seen
a Crystal Palace to Epsom through service in the late evening.

Hang on, i'm colouring by terminal at the London end. I'm not quite
sure i've got what you mean; i'm not very familiar with the trains
that far out (which won't be on my map, incidentally!).

Ah - I was thinking of the lines on the London Connections map which
goes slightly further out.

Could you expand on the cases which you think present difficulties?

A lot of the Southern routes are rather complicated to map because
there are many different combinations of routes and terminals
available, with several points where lines diverge and rejoin, with
some particular through services and destinations only running at
peak hours or late hours and so forth.

Very true. The gain by having the lines coloured by terminus would seem to
be outweighed by the confusion caused by multiple colours through many
stations. Why not just colour by TOC? Isn't the National Rail version of
the London Connections map done like that already?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On 26 Nov, 02:22, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:


And how would you handle Victoria-London Bridge services?

Good point. The off-peak Victoria-London Bridge service via Crystal
Palace can become a London Bridge-London Bridge service in the rush-
hours. How would that be shown on the map?

And it doesn't run at all on Sundays. How would the map cope with
that?

On Nov 24, 1:37 pm, "John Rowland"
wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 20:26:59 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

It was an example of a station with surface-level platforms so far
above sea level that that being on the "Underground" is arguably
more bizarre than Brighton being similarly branded.

In Hamburg, there is a section (Roedingsmarkt-Rathaus, roughly) where
the U-bahn is elevated about 5m above the ground, and the S-Bahn is
underground...

AFIAK, U-bahns are controlled by the city government and S-bahns are
controlled by the federal government, and there is no particular reason why
an entire U-line couldn't be overground or an entire S-line be underground,
although the latter is particularly unlikely.

At Stratford station the Overground platforms are downstairs from the
Underground platforms.


It'll be the same at Whitechapel in three years time.

Jonn