In the December edition of Modern Railways John Sully reports that TfL
and Network Rail have decided on the track layout for the section from
Dalston Kingsland to Camden Road following the opening of the ELL to
Highbury and Islington. The proposals include a turn back platform at
Camden Road. Alwaystouchout had previously reported that the service
pattern on the former NLL was going to be:
quote
" Phase 1
This would need to be delivered before the Olympics, using the
infrastructure enhancements mentioned above.
· 4tph from Clapham Junction to Stratford
· 2tph from Gospel Oak to Barking (with additional peak trains)
· 4tph from Richmond to Stratford
This would result in 8tph between Willesden Junction and Stratford.
Phase 2
A move to the second phase of services could take place after the
Olympics, and is dependent on the Bakerloo line takeover of Euston-
Watford local services to remove trains between Queen's Park and
Euston.
In their place, trains would operate from Queen's Park via Kilburn
High Road and South Hampstead to Camden Road (using what is currently
a freight-only link at Primrose Hill) and then on to Stratford.
Clapham Junction trains would be diverted to Barking instead of
Stratford.
This would result in a service pattern with
· 4tph from Stratford to Richmond,
· 4tph from Barking to Clapham Junction
· 4tph from Queen's Park to Stratford via South Hampstead.
The switch from Phase 1 to Phase 2 would enhance Gospel Oak to Barking
services to the Mayor's "minimum" turn-up-and-go frequency of 4tph. It
would also improve services to Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead,
and provide a new link from these places and Queen's Park to Camden
and Islington. However, services at Kentish Town West would drop from
8tph to 4tph along with through-services from Willesden Junction and
West Hampstead to Camden, Islington and Stratford."
unquote

No trains were originally planned to terminate at Camden Road so have
I missed something or has the plan be changed - if so to what?
Allowing for the fact that freight services over the route will
probably not diminish as container trains from Harwich and Felixstowe
will probably be replaced by trains from the newly approved Thames
Gateway at Thameshaven I cannot see how the proposed layout increases
or indeed maximises capacity along this key bottle neck section.

On Nov 26, 10:20 am, Mwmbwls wrote:

No trains were originally planned to terminate at Camden Road so have
I missed something or has the plan be changed - if so to what?
Allowing for the fact that freight services over the route will
probably not diminish as container trains from Harwich and Felixstowe
will probably be replaced by trains from the newly approved Thames
Gateway at Thameshaven I cannot see how the proposed layout increases
or indeed maximises capacity along this key bottle neck section.


It makes sense in terms of destinations. Camden is somewhere that
people from east and south east London might actually want to get to,
in a way that Barnsbury isn't.

Jonn

Mwmbwls wrote:
In the December edition of Modern Railways John Sully reports that TfL
and Network Rail have decided on the track layout for the section from
Dalston Kingsland to Camden Road following the opening of the ELL to
Highbury and Islington. The proposals include a turn back platform at
Camden Road.

No trains were originally planned to terminate at Camden Road so have
I missed something or has the plan be changed - if so to what?

There is no harm in having a turnback or two dotted around for occasional
use, otherwise any problem shuts the entire line.

On Nov 26, 2:13 pm, "John Rowland"
wrote:
Mwmbwls wrote:
In the December edition of Modern Railways John Sully reports that TfL
and Network Rail have decided on the track layout for the section from
Dalston Kingsland to Camden Road following the opening of the ELL to
Highbury and Islington. The proposals include a turn back platform at
Camden Road.

According to the November issue of Modern Railways, only the 4tph from
New Cross will run to Highbury & Islington - the other 8tph (from West
Croydon and Crystal Palace) would terminate at Dalston Junction. But
if the ELL has a segregated route all the way to H&I (as the current
issue shows) then surely all the trains could run there, providing
much better interchange opportunities? Would presumably need extra
trains to be ordered though.

On 26 Nov, 17:18, brixtonite wrote:
On Nov 26, 2:13 pm, "John Rowland"
wrote:
Mwmbwls wrote:
In the December edition of Modern Railways John Sully reports that TfL
and Network Rail have decided on the track layout for the section from
Dalston Kingsland to Camden Road following the opening of the ELL to
Highbury and Islington. The proposals include a turn back platform at
Camden Road.

According to the November issue of Modern Railways, only the 4tph from
New Cross will run to Highbury & Islington - the other 8tph (from West
Croydon and Crystal Palace) would terminate at Dalston Junction. But
if the ELL has a segregated route all the way to H&I (as the current
issue shows) then surely all the trains could run there, providing
much better interchange opportunities? Would presumably need extra
trains to be ordered though.

I don't think it's correct that the ELL will have a segregated route
all the way to H&I, that could only happen of there was a bit of major
shuffling about with the adjacent freight line(s) that run to the
north of the passenger lines (and the freight line is alternately
single and a pair of lines as well).

Plus any terminating train at H&I would need to have all the
passengers turfed out and then be reversed, all of which would take
time and block up the lines.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...
On 26 Nov, 17:18, brixtonite wrote:
On Nov 26, 2:13 pm, "John Rowland"
wrote:
Mwmbwls wrote:
In the December edition of Modern Railways John Sully reports that
TfL
and Network Rail have decided on the track layout for the section
from
Dalston Kingsland to Camden Road following the opening of the ELL to
Highbury and Islington. The proposals include a turn back platform at
Camden Road.

According to the November issue of Modern Railways, only the 4tph from
New Cross will run to Highbury & Islington - the other 8tph (from West
Croydon and Crystal Palace) would terminate at Dalston Junction. But
if the ELL has a segregated route all the way to H&I (as the current
issue shows) then surely all the trains could run there, providing
much better interchange opportunities? Would presumably need extra
trains to be ordered though.

I don't think it's correct that the ELL will have a segregated route
all the way to H&I, that could only happen of there was a bit of major
shuffling about with the adjacent freight line(s) that run to the
north of the passenger lines (and the freight line is alternately
single and a pair of lines as well).


The November Modern Rail showed two options for the NLL along this stretch.
The common feature of both options was four platform stations at Canonbury
and Highbury & Islington, with the existing platfoms used for ELL, and the
two new platfoms (the dualled freight lines effectively) for the NLL trains.

The 'selected' option of the two, shown in the Dec edition, is apparently
the more expensive of the two, with 3 platform stations at Caledonian Rd and
Camden Rd. This allows for 4 tracks (middle 2 bi-directional) from Camden
Rd station to a point between Cal Rd & H&I, where the 4 combine and becomes
the northern two of the overall layout.

At Camden Rd, the tracks (from the south) would be a westbound platform
line, a turnback platform line (bi-di), an eastbound platform, then an
eastbound through line.

At Caledonian Rd, the tracks (again from the south) would be a westbound
platform line, two bi-di platform lines, then an eastbound through line...

(too much for ASCII art, I'm afraid)

Paul S

On 26 Nov, 19:00, "Paul Scott" wrote:
The November Modern Rail showed two options for the NLL along this stretch.
The common feature of both options was four platform stations at Canonbury
and Highbury & Islington, with the existing platfoms used for ELL, and the
two new platfoms (the dualled freight lines effectively) for the NLL trains.

For some reason I'd always assumed it'd be two for freight and two for
passenger trains, but I suppose segregating it makes some sort of
sense - essentially it's just extending the two track Stratford-
Dalston section further west to Highbury. Do they say how the various
tracks west of there might be used?

(Someone linked to a Network Rail presentation recently that had
detailed planned track layouts, but inevitably I can't find it now.
Anyone?)

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

"Mr Thant" wrote in message
...
On 26 Nov, 19:00, "Paul Scott" wrote:
The November Modern Rail showed two options for the NLL along this
stretch.
The common feature of both options was four platform stations at
Canonbury
and Highbury & Islington, with the existing platfoms used for ELL, and
the
two new platfoms (the dualled freight lines effectively) for the NLL
trains.

For some reason I'd always assumed it'd be two for freight and two for
passenger trains, but I suppose segregating it makes some sort of
sense - essentially it's just extending the two track Stratford-
Dalston section further west to Highbury. Do they say how the various
tracks west of there might be used?


I'd expect the north side track to be a freight line or loop (no platforms),
south to be freight or pax, centre pair pax only?

(Someone linked to a Network Rail presentation recently that had
detailed planned track layouts, but inevitably I can't find it now.
Anyone?)

Possibly this, page 22, but it seems very out of date now, maybe because at
that stage the ELL wasn't going beyond Dalston Junction?

http://tinyurl.com/ywr9rh

Paul S

On 26 Nov, 21:55, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Possibly this, page 22, but it seems very out of date now, maybe because at
that stage the ELL wasn't going beyond Dalston Junction?

Thanks - that's the one. And that's a good point. As brixtonite says
upthread, it would be waste not to run all ELL trains to Highbury
given the planned infrastructure. All though that would mean Higbhbury-
Dalston going from 12 carriages per hour now to 80.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Nov 26, 11:51 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
Thanks - that's the one. And that's a good point. As brixtonite says
upthread, it would be waste not to run all ELL trains to Highbury
given the planned infrastructure. All though that would mean Higbhbury-
Dalston going from 12 carriages per hour now to 80.

As John Rowland points out upthread reversing facilities are useful
for maintaining operational robustness. Have any diagrams for the
proposed layout at Dalston Junction been published? Is the full width
of the former six platform NLR station still available?. Are there to
be any off peak stabling sidings along the ELLX?