On 13 Dec, 15:42, jonmorris wrote:
On 13 Dec, 15:21, Roland Perry wrote:

(snip)

I must admit that when I was in Paris and we visited the Louvre, we
opted to go to a ticket window (with queue) instead of the many
(completely unused) credit card machines to ensure we got the right
tickets for four people. This is despite the fact that I'll nearly
always go for a machine when I see one!

Jonathan


On a recent cross-Paris termini transfer the machines were all busy or
out of order and the queue at the window was long, so I got two Paris
Metro tickets from the handy tout who sold us them at normal face
value - he'd obviously bought a carnet of 10 which costs less than 10
single tickets.

Incidentally the guy was very polite, and didn't come across like a
nefarious individual whatsoever. Fair play to him. Which I'm sure is
not the sort of thing I should be saying on uk.railway!

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, MichaelJP wrote:

"Garry Smith" wrote in message
...
"MichaelJP" wrote in message
...

BTW watching the last BBC programmes recently, to me the whole idea of
the statue being an icon for the station has failed on two counts; (1)
the tall glass screens and posts completely ruin any long distance
view of the sculpture and (2) it's not really at a focal point of the
station, as all domestic pax are routed through the undercroft retail
area.

Indeed. I've been through the place three times this week, and it was
only when someone mentioned it here today that I remembered it existed.

I haven't seen it at all - suppose I'll have to go upstairs and have a
look now!

I like the statue; it is quite impressive, and people seem to be
photographing it, but I suppose what sticks in your throat is all the PR
guff about the statue being a place for people to meet, like Eros in
Piccadilly Circus. Those sort of places arise naturally, they're not
designed in.

Well, hang on: they arise due to the operation of natural laws about how
people move, congregate and communicate, not at random or through divine
intervention. That means it is possible to design them in, by arranging
things according to those laws. In principle - we would have to understand
the laws that are operating, and we might not, although i think we have
some good stuff - a chap called Christopher Alexander's written about this
sort of thing quite a bit, will see if i can dig something out tomorrow.

What you can't do, of course, is just plonk a big naff statue down and
declare it a meeting place.

tom

--
Any Christmas message which ends with "... everything's pointless
...." probably doesn't need sharing -- cleanskies

In message
Mizter T wrote:

On 13 Dec, 15:42, jonmorris wrote:
On 13 Dec, 15:21, Roland Perry wrote:

(snip)

I must admit that when I was in Paris and we visited the Louvre, we
opted to go to a ticket window (with queue) instead of the many
(completely unused) credit card machines to ensure we got the right
tickets for four people. This is despite the fact that I'll nearly
always go for a machine when I see one!

Jonathan


On a recent cross-Paris termini transfer the machines were all busy or
out of order and the queue at the window was long, so I got two Paris
Metro tickets from the handy tout who sold us them at normal face
value - he'd obviously bought a carnet of 10 which costs less than 10
single tickets.

Incidentally the guy was very polite, and didn't come across like a
nefarious individual whatsoever. Fair play to him. Which I'm sure is
not the sort of thing I should be saying on uk.railway!

Did you check what the tickets were? The scam is to buy discount tickets for
one of the various concessionary fares, eg child, military veteran and so on.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

On 13 Dec, 18:48, Graeme Wall wrote:
In message
Mizter T wrote:



On 13 Dec, 15:42, jonmorris wrote:
On 13 Dec, 15:21, Roland Perry wrote:

(snip)

I must admit that when I was in Paris and we visited the Louvre, we
opted to go to a ticket window (with queue) instead of the many
(completely unused) credit card machines to ensure we got the right
tickets for four people. This is despite the fact that I'll nearly
always go for a machine when I see one!

Jonathan

On a recent cross-Paris termini transfer the machines were all busy or
out of order and the queue at the window was long, so I got two Paris
Metro tickets from the handy tout who sold us them at normal face
value - he'd obviously bought a carnet of 10 which costs less than 10
single tickets.

Incidentally the guy was very polite, and didn't come across like a
nefarious individual whatsoever. Fair play to him. Which I'm sure is
not the sort of thing I should be saying on uk.railway!

Did you check what the tickets were? The scam is to buy discount tickets for
one of the various concessionary fares, eg child, military veteran and so on.


Yes - they were two kosher non-concessionary Metro carnet tickets.

But thanks for the heads-up on that!

Next time I'll buy a carnet from the machine myself - at the other end
of the metro journey I had a quick chance to check out the machines.
From what I remember - but I might be wrong - the RER machines (as
opposed to the Metro ones) didn't sell single Metro tickets but did
sell a carnet of 10. I'm not sure how long they remain valid for,
though I could easily find out I'm sure.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...
On 13 Dec, 18:48, Graeme Wall wrote:
In message

Mizter T wrote:



On 13 Dec, 15:42, jonmorris wrote:
On 13 Dec, 15:21, Roland Perry wrote:

(snip)

I must admit that when I was in Paris and we visited the Louvre, we
opted to go to a ticket window (with queue) instead of the many
(completely unused) credit card machines to ensure we got the right
tickets for four people. This is despite the fact that I'll nearly
always go for a machine when I see one!

Jonathan

On a recent cross-Paris termini transfer the machines were all busy or
out of order and the queue at the window was long, so I got two Paris
Metro tickets from the handy tout who sold us them at normal face
value - he'd obviously bought a carnet of 10 which costs less than 10
single tickets.

Incidentally the guy was very polite, and didn't come across like a
nefarious individual whatsoever. Fair play to him. Which I'm sure is
not the sort of thing I should be saying on uk.railway!

Did you check what the tickets were? The scam is to buy discount tickets
for
one of the various concessionary fares, eg child, military veteran and so
on.


Yes - they were two kosher non-concessionary Metro carnet tickets.

But thanks for the heads-up on that!

Next time I'll buy a carnet from the machine myself - at the other end
of the metro journey I had a quick chance to check out the machines.
From what I remember - but I might be wrong - the RER machines (as
opposed to the Metro ones) didn't sell single Metro tickets but did
sell a carnet of 10. I'm not sure how long they remain valid for,
though I could easily find out I'm sure.
The carnets stay valid until you use them- at least I've had no trouble
using ones that have been lurking for ages.
Brian

In message
Mizter T wrote:

On 13 Dec, 18:48, Graeme Wall wrote:
In message
Mizter T wrote:



On 13 Dec, 15:42, jonmorris wrote:
On 13 Dec, 15:21, Roland Perry wrote:

(snip)

I must admit that when I was in Paris and we visited the Louvre, we
opted to go to a ticket window (with queue) instead of the many
(completely unused) credit card machines to ensure we got the right
tickets for four people. This is despite the fact that I'll nearly
always go for a machine when I see one!

Jonathan

On a recent cross-Paris termini transfer the machines were all busy or
out of order and the queue at the window was long, so I got two Paris
Metro tickets from the handy tout who sold us them at normal face
value - he'd obviously bought a carnet of 10 which costs less than 10
single tickets.

Incidentally the guy was very polite, and didn't come across like a
nefarious individual whatsoever. Fair play to him. Which I'm sure is
not the sort of thing I should be saying on uk.railway!

Did you check what the tickets were? The scam is to buy discount tickets
for one of the various concessionary fares, eg child, military veteran
and so on.


Yes - they were two kosher non-concessionary Metro carnet tickets.

But thanks for the heads-up on that!

Next time I'll buy a carnet from the machine myself - at the other end
of the metro journey I had a quick chance to check out the machines.
From what I remember - but I might be wrong - the RER machines (as
opposed to the Metro ones) didn't sell single Metro tickets but did
sell a carnet of 10. I'm not sure how long they remain valid for,
though I could easily find out I'm sure.

I've never been able to discern a validation period for carnets. I had one
that was 6 months old from a previous trip on one occasion and it worked the
barriers.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

I suppose you (and I) would be able to cycle to Farrington,
City Thameslink or Blackfriars for a slightly less onerous set of
steps :-)

Except that they are rather in the wrong direction for
Westminster.

You what? Westminster to Blackfriars is a substantially shorter
and easier ride than Westminster to King's Cross.

Only if you ignore the train running time. Anyway, how much
better is the platform-street level interchange there?

Pass. I've never used either of them, i'm afraid!

From what I have ever seen of Blackfriars it has every bit the height
difference problems that SPILL has.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Mizter T wrote:

Next time I'll buy a carnet from the machine myself - at the other end
of the metro journey I had a quick chance to check out the machines.
From what I remember - but I might be wrong - the RER machines (as
opposed to the Metro ones) didn't sell single Metro tickets but did
sell a carnet of 10. I'm not sure how long they remain valid for,
though I could easily find out I'm sure.

The ones in my wallet must be at least a year old, and worked a barrier
a couple of weeks ago. I bought a job lot to save the game of "hunt the
working machine" each time I arrive at Paris Nord.

On the rare occasions when I needed an NR ticket at King's Cross, I used
to wander over to St Pancras where the queues were shorter. I guess that
doesn't work any more :-)
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007, MichaelJP wrote:

"Garry Smith" wrote in message
...
"MichaelJP" wrote in message
...

BTW watching the last BBC programmes recently, to me the whole idea of
the statue being an icon for the station has failed on two counts; (1)
the tall glass screens and posts completely ruin any long distance view
of the sculpture and (2) it's not really at a focal point of the
station, as all domestic pax are routed through the undercroft retail
area.

Indeed. I've been through the place three times this week, and it was
only when someone mentioned it here today that I remembered it existed.

I haven't seen it at all - suppose I'll have to go upstairs and have a
look now!

I like the statue; it is quite impressive, and people seem to be
photographing it, but I suppose what sticks in your throat is all the PR
guff about the statue being a place for people to meet, like Eros in
Piccadilly Circus. Those sort of places arise naturally, they're not
designed in.

Well, hang on: they arise due to the operation of natural laws about how
people move, congregate and communicate, not at random or through divine
intervention. That means it is possible to design them in, by arranging
things according to those laws. In principle - we would have to understand
the laws that are operating, and we might not, although i think we have
some good stuff - a chap called Christopher Alexander's written about this
sort of thing quite a bit, will see if i can dig something out tomorrow.

What you can't do, of course, is just plonk a big naff statue down and
declare it a meeting place.

tom


Yes, I'd say it has to satisfy these rules:-

1) Be a well-known landmark (Eros, Nelson's Column etc.)
2) Not be too big an area as to miss the person you're meeting (prob
Nelson's Column ruled out)
3) Be visible from a distance and also be fairly open so you can see people
approaching
4) Be at the intersection of various routes
5) Be at a useful destination (e.g. Eros for the West End)

This one fails on (1), (3), (4) and (5) though (1) may improve with time.

"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message
...


On the rare occasions when I needed an NR ticket at King's Cross, I used
to wander over to St Pancras where the queues were shorter. I guess that
doesn't work any more :-)

It might still work - most of the criticism above about queues has been
about the LU ticket halls I think - the NR booking hall in St Pancras is
near the entrance to the Thameslink platforms, and I've never seen it very
full.

Paul