In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

I suppose you (and I) would be able to cycle to Farrington,
City Thameslink or Blackfriars for a slightly less onerous
set of steps :-)

Except that they are rather in the wrong direction for
Westminster.

You what? Westminster to Blackfriars is a substantially shorter
and easier ride than Westminster to King's Cross.

Only if you ignore the train running time. Anyway, how much
better is the platform-street level interchange there?

Pass. I've never used either of them, i'm afraid!

From what I have ever seen of Blackfriars it has every bit the
height difference problems that SPILL has.

Okay. Farringdon does too - you have to carry your bike up a flight
of stairs. I don't find it a big deal, but i can imagine persons of
less sturdy build than me might.

So, City Thameslink?

A bit far out of the way to the East. What's the running time from SPILL?

Anyway, one flight of stairs may be OK but most of the stations we're
discussing have two. You can use the lift at SPILL but it sounds like the
queues make it a bit impractical at busy times, like when a train has
just arrived.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

Done with the best intentions no doubt, and by inference, 'zone 1'
must be the bit where trains won't stop until they are lengthened
to 12 car. Do they have signs suggesting people don't stand there?

No signs. Quite unclear where to stand I thought, when I visited. I know
how to interpret the "S" signs but most people wouldn't.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Garry Smith) wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

No doubt they have hung signs from the ceiling saying where zones
1 and 2 are, closely followed by hanging some other sign a few
feet in front of it so as to completely obscure it!

Very small signs stuck on the wall were all that I saw.

But I have been known to miss things that are glaringly
obvious!

I didn't even spot them!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

like Eros in Piccadilly Circus.

And as a born and bred Londoner I've never actually regarded the
Eros statue as a place to meet. Perhaps because for much of my life
it was rather awkwardly on a traffic island in the middle of the
road! In those days you'd meet at a Lyons Corner House - so filling
St Pancras with several Bistros (and they would be today) might be
a small step in the right direction.

Curious. I remember Eros (or Piccadilly Circus in general) being a
meeting point for lots of young people when I was a student.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Dec 14, 10:46 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article ,

(Paul Scott) wrote:
Done with the best intentions no doubt, and by inference, 'zone 1'
must be the bit where trains won't stop until they are lengthened
to 12 car. Do they have signs suggesting people don't stand there?

No signs. Quite unclear where to stand I thought, when I visited. I know
how to interpret the "S" signs but most people wouldn't.


I'm not sure if I do. What do they mean? (I'm familiar with "8 car
stop" signs and the line, but not S-car stop).

Thanks in advance...

PaulO

In article
,
(Paul Oter) wrote:

On Dec 14, 10:46 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article ,

(Paul Scott) wrote:
Done with the best intentions no doubt, and by inference, 'zone 1'
must be the bit where trains won't stop until they are lengthened
to 12 car. Do they have signs suggesting people don't stand there?

No signs. Quite unclear where to stand I thought, when I visited.
I know how to interpret the "S" signs but most people wouldn't.

I'm not sure if I do. What do they mean? (I'm familiar with "8 car
stop" signs and the line, but not S-car stop).

Thanks in advance...

All trains stop at "S" boards, with no length discrimination.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

I suppose you (and I) would be able to cycle to Farrington,
City Thameslink or Blackfriars for a slightly less onerous
set of steps :-)

Except that they are rather in the wrong direction for
Westminster.

You what? Westminster to Blackfriars is a substantially shorter
and easier ride than Westminster to King's Cross.

Only if you ignore the train running time. Anyway, how much
better is the platform-street level interchange there?

Pass. I've never used either of them, i'm afraid!

From what I have ever seen of Blackfriars it has every bit the
height difference problems that SPILL has.

Okay. Farringdon does too - you have to carry your bike up a flight
of stairs. I don't find it a big deal, but i can imagine persons of
less sturdy build than me might.

So, City Thameslink?

A bit far out of the way to the East.

No more so than Blackfriars. And it's further south than KX or Farringdon,
which puts it nearer Westminster.

Distances in miles for Google Maps' routes from Westminster (the
northeastern corner of Parliament Square) to the stations:

St Pancras 2.5 Whitehall, Charing Cross Rd, Tottenham Court Rd, Euston Rd
Farringdon 2.0 Victoria Embankment, Farringdon Rd
City 1.8 Victoria Embankment, Farringdon Rd
Blackfriars 1.4 Victoria Embankment
Elephant & Shed 1.3 Westminster Bridge Rd, London Rd

What's the running time from SPILL?

Here's the inner London part of the schedule of a train that's currently
somewhere down south, annotated with time from KX:

Elephant & Castle 12:35 18
London Blackfriars 12:43 10
City Thameslink 12:45 8
Farringdon Underground 12:49 4
London St Pancras (Low Level) 12:53 0
Kentish Town 12:57 4
West Hampstead Thameslink 13:01 8

So, Farringdon is 4 minutes, City 8 minutes, and Blackfriars 10 min.
Crazy.

Anyway, one flight of stairs may be OK but most of the stations we're
discussing have two.

Really?

St Pancras - 2
Farringdon - 1
City - ?
Blackfriars - "every bit the height difference problems that SPILL has"
but no count so far
E&C (not that we were discussing it) - ?

I encourage people who know these stations to improve this count!

Bear in mind also that getting on a northbound train further south will
give you a better chance of getting a seat, and an easier time getting the
bike on.

tom

--
The most successful people are those who are good at plan B. --
James Yorke

On Fri, 14 Dec 2007, lonelytraveller wrote:

Its so cramped at Kings Cross St Pancras that I can only think of two
places for the Chelsea-Hackney to fit, unless they place it at some
extremely deep level. It basically heads in the same direction as the
northern line round there (although "northbound" and "southbound" point
in opposite directions); it either has to go parallel at the south of
the northern line, or to the north of it.

Or with one tunnel on either side of it, and with new island platforms
facing onto both the Northern and Chelsea-Hackney, for cross-platform
interchange. You could either close the current Northern line island
platform, and even move the Northern line tracks closer together, making
the whole formation a bit more compact, or keep it there, and have
platforms on both sides of each Northern line track, perhaps with the old
platform being exit-only.

The running lines would need to be at a deeper level, at least to the
west, so that one can dive under the Northern line tunnel.

To the south would be so far away from the other exits and entrances
that it would be ridiculous connecting to it,

Wouldn't it be as close to the 1960s ticket hall as the Victoria platforms
are, and right under the Circle platforms? It would also be in roughly the
right place to inherit the KX Thameslink exit onto Pentonville Road, no?

tom

--
The most successful people are those who are good at plan B. --
James Yorke

On 14 Dec, 17:42, lonelytraveller
wrote:
To the south would
be so far away from the other exits and entrances that it would be
ridiculous connecting to it, so the north is the only sensible place.

But that's where it's going. The safeguarding shows the route as being
along the south side of Euston Road. Sheet 16:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/...pdfsheets10b19

and the ones that have already
happened at Angel (that's presumably why the cross passages there are
so wide and have very wide fire exit doors in the middle of them).

I presume they connect to the liftshafts and old entrance building
somehow. They're a long way southeast of the current entrance, which
the safeguarding passes west of. I'd think the interchange route would
have to join up at the mid-escalator passageway.

(I though I'd posted this last night, so sorry if this a double)

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

To the south would be so far away from the other exits and entrances
that it would be ridiculous connecting to it,
Wouldn't it be as close to the 1960s ticket hall as the Victoria platforms
are, and right under the Circle platforms? It would also be in roughly the
right place to inherit the KX Thameslink exit onto Pentonville Road, no?
If it was right under the circle platforms, then it would probably be
in the same place as the victoria line running tunnels just before the
platforms. It would have to either be further south, or very very
deep, either way making escalator access very awkward.
KX Thameslink is far to the south east of the other platforms;
anything in the right place for that wouldn't be very convenient for
anything else, unless (again) it was very very deep, so that
escalators at either end could stretch far enough to reach the rest of
the tube platforms as well as KX thameslink.