On Dec 11, 8:31 am, PhilD wrote:
On Dec 10, 11:48 pm, "John Rowland"

wrote:
Is there a good reason for them to be different? Won't various signs and
conduit friezes have to be replaced as a result of the colour change which
could otherwise have been left alone?

My guess is that they wanted something sufficiently different to
indicate different services, but sufficiently similar to merge them at
a later date.


I think there's a case for keeping them seperate. The use of shades of
orange suggests they're part of the same network, but it would ensure
that noone would believe they can get a direct train from, say, New
Cross to Hampstead Heath.

Jonn

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, wrote:

On Dec 11, 8:31 am, PhilD wrote:
On Dec 10, 11:48 pm, "John Rowland"

wrote:
Is there a good reason for them to be different? Won't various signs and
conduit friezes have to be replaced as a result of the colour change which
could otherwise have been left alone?

My guess is that they wanted something sufficiently different to
indicate different services, but sufficiently similar to merge them at
a later date.

I think there's a case for keeping them seperate. The use of shades of
orange suggests they're part of the same network, but it would ensure
that noone would believe they can get a direct train from, say, New
Cross to Hampstead Heath.

I take your point. ISTR a map (drawn by J. Rowland?) which put the
Wimbleware service in a different shade of green to the rest of the
District to make it clear that there were no Richmond - Edgware Road
trains. You could do something similar with the Metropolitan. Moreover,
the current map suggests you can get a train from Clapham Junction to
Stratford via Willesden Junction; you cannot.

However, i think all of these limitations can be shown by layout, without
using colour - as recent maps have done for the Wimbleware, and do for the
Overground at Gospel Oak.

tom

--
That's no moon!

"Tom Anderson" wrote

the current map suggests you can get a train from Clapham Junction to
Stratford via Willesden Junction; you cannot.

Actually you can. But only at 0717, 0817, 1717 and 1817.

Peter

On 11 Dec, 17:39, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote

the current map suggests you can get a train from Clapham Junction to
Stratford via Willesden Junction; you cannot.

Actually you can. But only at 0717, 0817, 1717 and 1817.

Peter


Indeed. I've done it.

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
.li...

I take your point. ISTR a map (drawn by J. Rowland?) which put the
Wimbleware service in a different shade of green to the rest of the
District to make it clear that there were no Richmond - Edgware Road
trains. You could do something similar with the Metropolitan. Moreover,
the current map suggests you can get a train from Clapham Junction to
Stratford via Willesden Junction; you cannot.


Bit of a sweeping statement that Tom, there are 3 or 4 services each way
to/from CJ shown in the weekday timetables!

Paul

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, Paul Scott wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
.li...

I take your point. ISTR a map (drawn by J. Rowland?) which put the
Wimbleware service in a different shade of green to the rest of the
District to make it clear that there were no Richmond - Edgware Road
trains. You could do something similar with the Metropolitan. Moreover,
the current map suggests you can get a train from Clapham Junction to
Stratford via Willesden Junction; you cannot.

Bit of a sweeping statement that Tom, there are 3 or 4 services each way
to/from CJ shown in the weekday timetables!

Well, bugger. Okay, but four trains does not a service make.

Thanks to Peter and Paul for the correction, though.

tom

--
Intensive Erfrischung

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, Paul Scott wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
.li...

I take your point. ISTR a map (drawn by J. Rowland?) which put the
Wimbleware service in a different shade of green to the rest of the
District to make it clear that there were no Richmond - Edgware Road

trains. You could do something similar with the Metropolitan.
Moreover, the current map suggests you can get a train from Clapham
Junction to Stratford via Willesden Junction; you cannot.

Bit of a sweeping statement that Tom, there are 3 or 4 services
each way to/from CJ shown in the weekday timetables!

Well, bugger. Okay, but four trains does not a service make.

Thanks to Peter and Paul for the correction, though.

Eh, lad, I can remember when the Birmingham Cross-City service (well, the
Southern bit at least) consisted of only three trains a day!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
Eh, lad, I can remember when the Birmingham Cross-City service (well, the
Southern bit at least) consisted of only three trains a day!

Incredible now but absolutely true, as you say.

The northern bit (theoretically linked with the Stourbridge line in the
early seventies) wasn't significantly better, either.......
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, wrote:

On Dec 11, 8:31 am, PhilD wrote:
On Dec 10, 11:48 pm, "John Rowland"

wrote:
Is there a good reason for them to be different? Won't various signs
and
conduit friezes have to be replaced as a result of the colour change
which
could otherwise have been left alone?

My guess is that they wanted something sufficiently different to
indicate different services, but sufficiently similar to merge them
at a later date.

I think there's a case for keeping them seperate. The use of shades of
orange suggests they're part of the same network, but it would ensure
that noone would believe they can get a direct train from, say, New
Cross to Hampstead Heath.

I take your point. ISTR a map (drawn by J. Rowland?) which put the
Wimbleware service in a different shade of green to the rest of the
District to make it clear that there were no Richmond - Edgware Road
trains. You could do something similar with the Metropolitan. Moreover,
the current map suggests you can get a train from Clapham Junction to
Stratford via Willesden Junction; you cannot.

However, i think all of these limitations can be shown by layout,
without using colour - as recent maps have done for the Wimbleware, and
do for the Overground at Gospel Oak.

The current map [1] makes the Wimbleware service fairly clear, though I
can see a case for marking it out as a separate line, H&C style. One of
the problems with the Underground map is that it is well suited to tube
lines, where services are really very distinct from one another, but it
is less good for subsurface and overground services where there is not a
one line to one track type of segregation. I also don't like the
wheelchair symbol. I don't object to the idea of showing stair free
stations, and I can't think of a better idea for how to do it, but that
doesn't stop me from not liking it.

[1] http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/images/...d-tube-map.gif

Robin

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, R.C. Payne wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007, wrote:

On Dec 11, 8:31 am, PhilD wrote:
On Dec 10, 11:48 pm, "John Rowland"

wrote:
Is there a good reason for them to be different? Won't various signs and
conduit friezes have to be replaced as a result of the colour change
which
could otherwise have been left alone?

My guess is that they wanted something sufficiently different to indicate
different services, but sufficiently similar to merge them at a later
date.

I think there's a case for keeping them seperate. The use of shades of
orange suggests they're part of the same network, but it would ensure that
noone would believe they can get a direct train from, say, New Cross to
Hampstead Heath.

I take your point. ISTR a map (drawn by J. Rowland?) which put the
Wimbleware service in a different shade of green to the rest of the
District to make it clear that there were no Richmond - Edgware Road
trains. You could do something similar with the Metropolitan. Moreover, the
current map suggests you can get a train from Clapham Junction to Stratford
via Willesden Junction; you cannot.

However, i think all of these limitations can be shown by layout, without
using colour - as recent maps have done for the Wimbleware, and do for the
Overground at Gospel Oak.

The current map [1] makes the Wimbleware service fairly clear,

Yes, that was my point.

though I can see a case for marking it out as a separate line, H&C
style. One of the problems with the Underground map is that it is well
suited to tube lines, where services are really very distinct from one
another, but it is less good for subsurface and overground services
where there is not a one line to one track type of segregation.

See my strenuous remarks in the threads we've had about colouring the
London Connections map - i think the situation isn't quite as bad as you
might think. Worse than the tube, but not a dead loss.

I also don't like the wheelchair symbol. I don't object to the idea of
showing stair free stations, and I can't think of a better idea for how
to do it, but that doesn't stop me from not liking it.

I agree. The problem is that it's a circle, which implies interchange.
Could they not just have plonked a little wheelchair icon next to the
station tick? Or put it in the middle of the circle for actual
interchanges.

tom

--
Intensive Erfrischung