"Tom Page" wrote in message
...

Bear in mind also that the existing stations (except Canada Water,
which is of recent construction) will require to be upgraded to be DDA
compliant, which at Shadwell, Wapping and Rotherhithe, for example,
will require new lifts and cross-passageways. (Surrey Quays is a
surface station in a cutting, but this will probably require lifts as
there is little space for ramps.) I also suspect that the narrow
platforms at Wapping will have to be widened, which will involve
widening the tunnel - a major civil engineering task in its own right.
In addition, platforms will require to be lengthend, which at
Rotherhithe and Wapping will require opening out the tunnels (the new
class 378s will, I presume, be 20m vehicles whereas the A stock is
noticeably shorter).

Are lifts going in at these stations as you indicate? I was not aware
of such a plan. I also wasn't aware of any widening work, although
again I may be wrong.


I don't think the improvements are that major either, indeed for a long time
a couple of the stations were expected to close as they couldn't be easily
made DDA compliant, and at least one station was reported to need SDO...

Paul S

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 13:46:51 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Stuart" wrote in message
k...
Boltar wrote:

sunday)... though it isn't closing for good, it is in fact headed for
bigger and better things when reopen in summer 2010, as a quasi-


Quote why it needs 3 years to be converted to 3rd rail when the 3rd
rail is already there is anyones guess. Usual lazy british contractors
who take 2 weeks to change a lightbulb no doubt. The extensions to the
line shouldn't effect the bit in the middle so I can't see a good
reason to close it. Any materials for the extension that need to be
moved by rail could be done at night.

It does seem a long time, especially considering it was closed for several
years not that long ago. It can't be in that much of a bad state

I noticed on Clive's line guides, that after the last closure, the power
supply was made switchable between third or fourth rail mode. Which seems to
be another reason to question the length of closure.

The NL and DC lines were converted from 4-rail to 3-rail with no
special closure period, presumably being done during succeeding
Sundays on one sub-station at a time.

On 22 Dec, 07:34, Mizter T wrote:
Just as a (rather late in the day) heads up to anyone who may either
have forgotten or been unaware that London Underground's East London
Line (ELL) is closing tonight

Had my last ride on the East London line around midday today. Took
some photos (without flash for the most part!) and got very nostalgic.
It will be missed

On Dec 22, 5:15*pm, Tom Page wrote:
Bear in mind also that the existing stations (except Canada Water,
which is of recent construction) will require to be upgraded to be DDA
compliant, which at Shadwell, Wapping and Rotherhithe, for example,
will require new lifts and cross-passageways. (Surrey Quays is a
surface station in a cutting, but this will probably require lifts as
there is little space for ramps.) I also suspect that the narrow
platforms at Wapping will have to be widened, which will involve
widening the tunnel - a major civil engineering task in its own right.
In addition, platforms will require to be lengthend, which at
Rotherhithe and Wapping will require opening out the tunnels (the new
class 378s will, I presume, be 20m vehicles whereas the A stock is
noticeably shorter).

Are lifts going in at these stations as you indicate? I was not aware
of such a plan. I also wasn't aware of any widening work, although
again I may be wrong.

Tom

It is a legal requirement that new works and any sort of upgrade must
be DDA compliant (hence, for example, the tendency not to "refurbish"
rolling stock, which would require DDA compliance, but to "refresh"),
so something will have to be done to make the stations DDA compliant,
which with the exception of New Cross and Canada Water, they are
presently not. And Wapping, in particular, is very, very cramped, so
it would be very difficult to carry out these sorts of works and
maintain access to the station.

On the subject of the power supplies, and in particular the conversion
to 3rd rail, since the conversion of the New Line and NLL in the
1970s, the legal situation has changed considerably. The use of the
running rails for traction return does lead to stray currents, which
can and do corrode anything metallic, especially in damp areas like
tunnels. Under the EMC (Electro-magnetic compatibility) regulations
1992, the railway must demonstrate that following the conversion, the
EM emissions from it are no greater than those pertaining at present.
This will probably require the installation of additional conductors
in parallel with the running rails in order to reduce the resistance
of the return circuit (cf Farringdon, where an additional "fourth"
rail is laid in the four-foot and bonded to the running rails for this
purpose) and to "encourage" the return currents to flow via the rails
and not via earth. This can also be achieved by the replacement of
jointed bullhead rail (which is largely still used on the ELL) with
CWR using heavier flat bottom rail, which will have a significantly
lower resistance in its own right.

Does anyone know of any plans for a walk through the original Brunel tunnel while it is closed?

On 22 Dec, 19:50, wrote:
It is a legal requirement that new works and any sort of upgrade must
be DDA compliant (hence, for example, the tendency not to "refurbish"
rolling stock, which would require DDA compliance, but to "refresh"),
so something will have to be done to make the stations DDA compliant,
which with the exception of New Cross and Canada Water, they are
presently not. And Wapping, in particular, is very, very cramped, so
it would be very difficult to carry out these sorts of works and
maintain access to the station.

My understanding is the works planned fall under "refreshment" type
rules and hence no new lifts etc will be provided at existing
stations. The various future maps consistently show them as remaining
non-accessible:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/pdf/tube_map2010.pdf
http://www.campaignforcrossrail.com/...fL_trnsprt.pdf

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

SamB wrote:
On 22 Dec, 07:34, Mizter T wrote:
Just as a (rather late in the day) heads up to anyone who may either
have forgotten or been unaware that London Underground's East London
Line (ELL) is closing tonight

Had my last ride on the East London line around midday today. Took
some photos (without flash for the most part!) and got very nostalgic.
It will be missed

Well I am sorry to see it pass having been a regular passenger for
the last 30 years, but I am glad to see the pace at which things are
happening
at the site of the new depot, the foundations for the flyover are in a
pretty advanced state, the site has been totally transformed from the
old car pound and wasteland that it previously was.
So here's hoping we all around in 3 years time for the grand re-opening.


--
Martin

On 22 Dec, 20:16, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 22 Dec, 19:50, wrote:

It is a legal requirement that new works and any sort of upgrade must
be DDA compliant (hence, for example, the tendency not to "refurbish"
rolling stock, which would require DDA compliance, but to "refresh"),
so something will have to be done to make the stations DDA compliant,
which with the exception of New Cross and Canada Water, they are
presently not. And Wapping, in particular, is very, very cramped, so
it would be very difficult to carry out these sorts of works and
maintain access to the station.

My understanding is the works planned fall under "refreshment" type
rules and hence no new lifts etc will be provided at existing
stations. The various future maps consistently show them as remaining
non-accessible:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/pdf/tube...ve_tfL_trnsprt...

U

--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

I'm not even sure that it's true that major works do need to be lift-
accessible. I thought the requirement was that a company had to make
reasonable efforts - if the cost was grossly disproportionate to the
benefits I thought a full-accessibility scheme was not required.
Anyway, as Mr Thant says, I don't think there's much work at all
happening at either Wapping or Rotherhithe stations - the bricks and
mortar of the stations (so I thought) will remain completely
unchanged. I'm sure signage will be replaced, and I imagine things
will be cleaned, but neither of these changes would be sufficient to
count as a refurb.

Tom

wrote in message

On Dec 22, 2:35 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 22 Dec, 13:30, Boltar wrote:

Quote why it needs 3 years to be converted to 3rd rail when the 3rd
rail is already there is anyones guess. Usual lazy british
contractors who take 2 weeks to change a lightbulb no doubt. The
extensions to the line shouldn't effect the bit in the middle so I
can't see a good reason to close it.

As I mentioned recently, the work isn't taking 3 years. London
Underground are being given 3 months to pack up their things and
leave, and it's expected to be ready for test running by June 2009.
So that's a little over one year of construction. Plus their
optimistic projection is currently November 2009, which would make
it closed for less than two years.

U
--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Bear in mind also that the existing stations (except Canada Water,
which is of recent construction) will require to be upgraded to be DDA
compliant, which at Shadwell, Wapping and Rotherhithe, for example,
will require new lifts and cross-passageways. (Surrey Quays is a
surface station in a cutting, but this will probably require lifts as
there is little space for ramps.) I also suspect that the narrow
platforms at Wapping will have to be widened, which will involve
widening the tunnel - a major civil engineering task in its own right.
In addition, platforms will require to be lengthend, which at
Rotherhithe and Wapping will require opening out the tunnels (the new
class 378s will, I presume, be 20m vehicles whereas the A stock is
noticeably shorter).

Yes, the A stock cars are only 16.2m long, but I doubt that any platform
extensions are planned.

STOP PRESS... STOP PRESS...
I've just this morning read a thread on District Dave's internet forum
about the closure of the ELL - it looks like a 'special' train of some
sort was on the cards and was due to run this afternoon, but this has
seemingly been called off for reasons unknown (as is explained on page
2 of the thread)...
http://districtdave.proboards39.com/...d=11972028 43

I believe the original plan was to run the 4-car 1938TS in public
service, but the unions refused to allow it and LU was unable to
persuade them.