STOP PRESS... STOP PRESS...
I've just this morning read a thread on District Dave's internet forum
about the closure of the ELL - it looks like a 'special' train of some
sort was on the cards and was due to run this afternoon, but this has
seemingly been called off for reasons unknown (as is explained on page
2 of the thread)...
http://districtdave.proboards39.com/...d=11972028 43

I believe the original plan was to run the 4-car 1938TS in public
service, but the unions refused to allow it and LU was unable to
persuade them.

"Spyke" wrote in message

STOP PRESS... STOP PRESS...
I've just this morning read a thread on District Dave's internet
forum about the closure of the ELL - it looks like a 'special' train
of some sort was on the cards and was due to run this afternoon, but
this has seemingly been called off for reasons unknown (as is
explained on page 2 of the thread)...
http://districtdave.proboards39.com/...d=11972028 43

I believe the original plan was to run the 4-car 1938TS in public
service, but the unions refused to allow it and LU was unable to
persuade them.

Why did they object? Was it to be driven by a non-union member?

On 23 Dec, 13:16, "Recliner" wrote:
"Spyke" wrote:


STOP PRESS... STOP PRESS...
I've just this morning read a thread on District Dave's internet
forum about the closure of the ELL - it looks like a 'special' train
of some sort was on the cards and was due to run this afternoon, but
this has seemingly been called off for reasons unknown (as is
explained on page 2 of the thread)...
http://districtdave.proboards39.com/...&action=displa...

I believe the original plan was to run the 4-car 1938TS in public
service, but the unions refused to allow it and LU was unable to
persuade them.

Why did they object? Was it to be driven by a non-union member?


If you look elsewhere on that District Dave forum thread then you'll
read reports of how some 'enthusiasts' on the recent 1938TS tour of
the ELL behaved in what sounds like a pretty appallingly bad fashion.
Maybe some of the drivers didn't want to turn the last day into a
circus with such individuals clowning about.

I hasten to add that I'm not denigrating all transport enthusiasts by
any stretch. It is merely that several times I've read various tales
of the trouble that a significant (?) minority bring along to various
events, with behaviour that doesn't sound much different to a bunch of
unruly and overexcited nursery school children.

On Dec 23, 2:51*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 23 Dec, 13:16, "Recliner" wrote:





"Spyke" wrote:

STOP PRESS... STOP PRESS...
I've just this morning read a thread on District Dave's internet
forum about the closure of the ELL - it looks like a 'special' train
of some sort was on the cards and was due to run this afternoon, but
this has seemingly been called off for reasons unknown (as is
explained on page 2 of the thread)...
http://districtdave.proboards39.com/...&action=displa...

I believe the original plan was to run the 4-car 1938TS in public
service, but the unions refused to allow it and LU was unable to
persuade them.

Why did they object? *Was it to be driven by a non-union member?

I wonder if the union actually asked the drivers...

If you look elsewhere on that District Dave forum thread then you'll
read reports of how some 'enthusiasts' on the recent 1938TS tour of
the ELL behaved in what sounds like a pretty appallingly bad fashion.

Some people went past the platform barriers at Whitechapel, whilst
others used flash photography. Sadly, some of these were LUL/NR/TOC
staff. Clearly there should have been station staff and/or BTP there
from the start, to either prevent this or escort a couple of cranks at
a time past the barriers. Still, hardly 'appalling' by mainline
railtour standards e.g. a train full of loudmouth yobs with a poor
grasp of the concept of personal hygiene, who start drinking from
07:00.

Maybe some of the drivers didn't want to turn the last day into a
circus with such individuals clowning about.

I spotted an average of 1 well-behaved crank per station at about
17:00 last night, with a few more there for haulage.

EE507 wrote:

On Dec 23, 2:51�pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 23 Dec, 13:16, "Recliner" wrote:


"Spyke" wrote:

STOP PRESS... STOP PRESS...
I've just this morning read a thread on District Dave's internet
forum about the closure of the ELL - it looks like a 'special' train
of some sort was on the cards and was due to run this afternoon, but
this has seemingly been called off for reasons unknown (as is
explained on page 2 of the thread)...
http://districtdave.proboards39.com/...&action=displa...

I believe the original plan was to run the 4-car 1938TS in public
service, but the unions refused to allow it and LU was unable to
persuade them.

Why did they object? Was it to be driven by a non-union member?

I wonder if the union actually asked the drivers...

If you look elsewhere on that District Dave forum thread then you'll
read reports of how some 'enthusiasts' on the recent 1938TS tour of
the ELL behaved in what sounds like a pretty appallingly bad fashion.

Some people went past the platform barriers at Whitechapel, whilst
others used flash photography. Sadly, some of these were LUL/NR/TOC
staff. Clearly there should have been station staff and/or BTP there
from the start, to either prevent this or escort a couple of cranks at
a time past the barriers. Still, hardly 'appalling' by mainline
railtour standards e.g. a train full of loudmouth yobs with a poor
grasp of the concept of personal hygiene, who start drinking from
07:00.


I'm probably guilty of employing a bit of hyperbole by using the word
"appalling" - apols.

Truth is that I don't have much first-hand experience of such antics,
as I've never been on a railtour plus I've don't really go in for
'last days', it's more stuff that I've read on the internet. The
problem is that in a way I'd quite like to go on a railtour or two,
but I'm not sure I'd like to do it in the company of a few of these
bods. I went on an old style furnished Routemaster on the last day of
the 12 (one of the specials brought in for the day), and there was a
couple of guys on that who were total loonies - it was a real eye
opener to the sometimes bizarre world of the transport enthusiast. I
ended up getting off that bus and back on a regular 12 behind that was
populated by normal people.

Of course I am a transport enthusiast of sorts already, but some of
the stuff I've seen and heard about does make me think it's a somewhat
odd world out there that I'm not sure I really want to be part of!

Anyway, I wasn't planning on going along yesterday, but because my
plans for the day changed I did in fact have some time to make a
detour in the afternoon whilst on my normal travels to take a last
ride on the ELL (in part because I actually wanted to make a note of
the first and last ELL train times - by way of taking a photo of the
relevant posters - so that when the ELLX opens I'll be able to compare
them).


Maybe some of the drivers didn't want to turn the last day into a
circus with such individuals clowning about.

I spotted an average of 1 well-behaved crank per station at about
17:00 last night, with a few more there for haulage.


Yes, when I was there around then there wasn't anyone being stupid,
the only issue being the one guy who left the train having stunk the
whole carriage out with his general stinkiness - I felt sad for him to
be honest. There was a gregarious bunch at the north end of the
platform at Whitechapel who were having fun (were they the District
Dave forum mob I wonder?).

In message
,
EE507 writes
I believe the original plan was to run the 4-car 1938TS in public
service, but the unions refused to allow it and LU was unable to
persuade them.

Why did they object? *Was it to be driven by a non-union member?

I wonder if the union actually asked the drivers...

All this talk about unions is a red herring. It was nothing to do with
them and they haven't objected to anything to my knowledge.

The 38 stock couldn't be used in normal passenger service as it wouldn't
be able to stop at Canada Water due to the platform heights. As this
would have caused service problems, it was decided not to try to run it.

There was talk on the day of an un-refurbished 3 car D stock making an
appearance. I have no information if this was a serious consideration,
but I would doubt very much that the unions would care too much if it
did.

Had any of these trains actually run, they would have had to have been
driven by Test Train Operators as nobody else would have the stock
knowledge and line knowledge together to drive them. It may well be
that these operators are not licensed to drive trains in passenger
service. I don't know the answer to this, but I will attempt to find
out when I go back to work (on Boxing Day!). If so, that would be a
very good reason.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message
,
EE507 writes
I believe the original plan was to run the 4-car 1938TS in public
service, but the unions refused to allow it and LU was unable to
persuade them.

Why did they object? Was it to be driven by a non-union member?

I wonder if the union actually asked the drivers...

All this talk about unions is a red herring. It was nothing to do with
them and they haven't objected to anything to my knowledge.

Apologies, this was the information I heard, but it appears that it was
incorrect and the platform heights were the major issue.

It's a shame it didn't run, it would have been interesting to see what
the 'normal' passengers made of having the 1938 stock forming their
train. (Having said that, If I was the LT Museum, I'm not sure I'd want
some of the ELL's 'customers' anywhere near my nice train!).

In message
,
Mizter T writes
If you look elsewhere on that District Dave forum thread then you'll
read reports of how some 'enthusiasts' on the recent 1938TS tour of the
ELL behaved in what sounds like a pretty appallingly bad fashion. Maybe
some of the drivers didn't want to turn the last day into a circus with
such individuals clowning about.

In the short time I was about yesterday, I noted one individual who just
wandered through the barriers at Whitechapel to try to get his picture.
When told to get back on the platform his response was that it *is* the
last day - as if that should matter.

Later at New Cross Gate, another (I assume different, although I
wouldn't swear to it) was sat right on the edge of the platform trying
to take a picture of an approaching train. He exclaimed surprise that
the driver was sat outside the platform whistling. He only moved when
others pointed out that the driver was waiting to get in. He was so
close that had the train come in to the platform there was a good chance
of him getting hit.

We gave up and went to the pub at this point.

With this type of attitude to safety, I'm not surprised that staff get
annoyed. I've had similar things happen myself and we (LUL staff) all
know someone who has had a fatal one-under, which is frequently due to
stupidity.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On 23 Dec, 13:16, "Recliner" wrote:
"Spyke" wrote in message




I believe the original plan was to run the 4-car 1938TS in public
service, but the unions refused to allow it and LU was unable to
persuade them.

Why did they object? Was it to be driven by a non-union member?

It wasn't union objections (though they were looking closely at
running the '38 last week), but more that it couldn't stop at Canada
Water because of the floor height differences.