[posted to uk.transport.london and uk.railway]

(Apols to anyone on uk.railway who couldn't care less about such
Metropolitan matters - in which case there's no need to read on!)

Just as a (rather late in the day) heads up to anyone who may either
have forgotten or been unaware that London Underground's East London
Line (ELL) is closing tonight (that's Saturday 22 December - though
AFAICS the last trains will still run as normal just past midnight on
sunday)... though it isn't closing for good, it is in fact headed for
bigger and better things when reopen in summer 2010, as a quasi-
National Rail (or heavy-rail) line, with trains operating on 'Metro'
frequencies serving a much longer route stretching from Croydon in the
south to Dalston in the north. The project was officially known as the
East London Line Extension (ELLX), though the official title is now
the East London Railway, and it is being run by Transport for London.

Thus tomorrow (saturday) is the last day the East London Line will see
London Underground operation, and hence the last day that the 4-car A
stock trains of LU will be in passenger service down this line - which
remains LU's furthest foray from the river into south-east London.

In the interim period the ELL will be replaced by several rail
replacement bus services, although none will provide the crucial cross-
river link previously provided by the ELL through the Thames Tunnel,
which was the first tunnel under the Thames and was designed by Marc
Brunel (father of Isambard Kingdom) and opened in 1843. The
replacement buses cannot traverse the only sensible route through the
nearby Rotherhithe Tunnel, so passengers looking to cross the river
are thus advised to consider making use of a combination of the
Jubilee line and the Dockland Light Railway, or alternatively travel
via London Bridge (though there won't be any zonal/fares easements on
routes via central London - so tickets valid for zone 1 will be
required for any journeys made via zone 1).

The new ELLX will form part of TfL's new London Overground network
(and will be operated by TfL's chosen rail concessionaire, LOROL,
rather than London Underground - hence the talk of the line being
'privatised'), with through trains from West Croydon and Crystal
Palace joining the course of the existing ELL at New Cross Gate,
travelling up to Whitechapel then on and up over a new line across the
Great Eastern lines out of Liverpool Street station to join the course
of the Broad Street to Dalston Junction line (part of the original
North London Line/Railway), with new stations up to and including
Dalston. Some trains will continue alongside the existing North London
Line to Highbury & Islington. New Cross will continue to be served as
a branch, with trains terminating there as before.

The following TfL leaflet provides the official, albeit brief, low-
down on the plans, plus lots of detailed info on the replacement buses
(PDF):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/ell-closure-leaflet.pdf


The East London Railway (as was) has a most interesting past,
originally serving Liverpool Street station it also provided a wide
range of destinations to the south, including Croydon and even
Brighton. Thus one can see the ELLX project as fulfilling the
potential of the line as a new cross-London link. It won't however be
available as a freight route, as it used to be - the climb up from the
cutting north of Whitechapel to the level of a viaduct at Bishopsgate
will be too much of an incline for freight trains.

An as yet unfunded phase 2 of the ELLX would provide a link between
the existing line and the South London Line north of Old Kent Road and
would allow for through services via Peckham Rye to Clapham Junction.
This is likely to go ahead an an enabling work for the Thameslink 2015
project, as it would 'solve' the issue of the existing South London
Line (Victoria - London Bridge) service's occupancy of valuable
platform space at London Bridge by replacing the service with ELLX
trains (plus a separate replacement service to Victoria).

As ever Clive Feather's ever excellent CULG provides a plethora of
information on the ELL, including a good outline of the history of the
ELL:
http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/eastlondon.html


Whilst undoubtedly the current ELL doesn't carry anything as near as
many passengers as other LU lines it is nonetheless an important link,
with nearly 35,000 passengers on weekdays or over ten and a half
million journeys each year. The ELL has in fact actually had a
relatively recent extended closure - it closed for what was supposed
to be a period of 6 months in 1995, but the closure actually ended up
lasting three years because of wrangles about the way the historic
Thames Tunnel was being treated.

However since then ridership of the ELL has been substantially boosted
by the arrival of the extended Jubilee line at the new station at
Canada Water, which allows for easy interchange onto the Tube network
to access the West End and, crucially, Canary Wharf and points further
east. In addition the burgeoning Goldsmiths' College in New Cross,
with an expanding number of students, will have provided the line with
additional patronage - hence the closure will have a bigger impact
this time around (though the 1999 arrival nearby of the DLR south of
the river will provide an alternative cross-river route this time
around compared to the previous period of).

But much of what I have written concerns the future - today is the end
of Underground operation on the line, and (notwithstanding the
somewhat more adventurous earlier history of the line) it is also the
end of the self-contained East London Line as we know it (or indeed
the "Metropolitan Line - East London Section", as it was known up
until the 1980's).


~~~

P.S. It's a bit difficult finding out the times of the last train on
the web - the TfL Journey Planner has had a Stalinist turn and
seemingly has wiped from its memory any knowledge of the East London
Line... however, Google has a long memory, so the PDF converted by
Google into HTML can be seen, for a short while at least, by following
this link (though it takes a bit of deciphering):

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache...ast-london.pdf
or via http://tinyurl.com/2embko

(If anyone has a proper copy of this file I'd much appreciate it if
you could email it to me - when the ELLX opens, it'll be interesting
to see how the first and last train times compare to what's currently
on offer.)

I presume that East London Line trains will be stabled in the small
New Cross depot on saturday night at the least, before returning at
some point to Neasden (via St. Mary's curve, a connection between the
ELL and the District line in the vicinity of Whitechapel). I don't
know the fate of the small New Cross depot - i.e. whether it will be
used by ELLX trains - as there is a big new purpose built depot being
built for them outside New Cross Gate. However all the Underground
staff are being relocated elsewhere on the network.

STOP PRESS... STOP PRESS...
I've just this morning read a thread on District Dave's internet forum
about the closure of the ELL - it looks like a 'special' train of some
sort was on the cards and was due to run this afternoon, but this has
seemingly been called off for reasons unknown (as is explained on page
2 of the thread)...
http://districtdave.proboards39.com/...d=11972028 43

On 22 Dec, 07:34, Mizter T wrote:
sunday)... though it isn't closing for good, it is in fact headed for
bigger and better things when reopen in summer 2010, as a quasi-

Quote why it needs 3 years to be converted to 3rd rail when the 3rd
rail is already there is anyones guess. Usual lazy british contractors
who take 2 weeks to change a lightbulb no doubt. The extensions to the
line shouldn't effect the bit in the middle so I can't see a good
reason to close it. Any materials for the extension that need to be
moved by rail could be done at night.

National Rail (or heavy-rail) line, with trains operating on 'Metro'
frequencies serving a much longer route stretching from Croydon in the

It already is heavy rail (A stock is large and heavy) with metro
frequencies. If anything the service will be less frequent and far
more prone to delays caused by the rest of the south london network.

The new ELLX will form part of TfL's new London Overground network
(and will be operated by TfL's chosen rail concessionaire, LOROL,
rather than London Underground - hence the talk of the line being

Probably a sensible decision. LUL would have trouble running a bath
without a delay.

B2003

Boltar wrote:

sunday)... though it isn't closing for good, it is in fact headed for
bigger and better things when reopen in summer 2010, as a quasi-


Quote why it needs 3 years to be converted to 3rd rail when the 3rd
rail is already there is anyones guess. Usual lazy british contractors
who take 2 weeks to change a lightbulb no doubt. The extensions to the
line shouldn't effect the bit in the middle so I can't see a good
reason to close it. Any materials for the extension that need to be
moved by rail could be done at night.

It does seem a long time, especially considering it was closed for
several years not that long ago. It can't be in that much of a bad state

"Stuart" wrote in message
...
Boltar wrote:

sunday)... though it isn't closing for good, it is in fact headed for
bigger and better things when reopen in summer 2010, as a quasi-


Quote why it needs 3 years to be converted to 3rd rail when the 3rd
rail is already there is anyones guess. Usual lazy british contractors
who take 2 weeks to change a lightbulb no doubt. The extensions to the
line shouldn't effect the bit in the middle so I can't see a good
reason to close it. Any materials for the extension that need to be
moved by rail could be done at night.

It does seem a long time, especially considering it was closed for several
years not that long ago. It can't be in that much of a bad state

I noticed on Clive's line guides, that after the last closure, the power
supply was made switchable between third or fourth rail mode. Which seems to
be another reason to question the length of closure.

Paul S

On 22 Dec, 13:30, Boltar wrote:
Quote why it needs 3 years to be converted to 3rd rail when the 3rd
rail is already there is anyones guess. Usual lazy british contractors
who take 2 weeks to change a lightbulb no doubt. The extensions to the
line shouldn't effect the bit in the middle so I can't see a good
reason to close it.

As I mentioned recently, the work isn't taking 3 years. London
Underground are being given 3 months to pack up their things and
leave, and it's expected to be ready for test running by June 2009. So
that's a little over one year of construction. Plus their optimistic
projection is currently November 2009, which would make it closed for
less than two years.


U
--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Dec 22, 2:35*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 22 Dec, 13:30, Boltar wrote:

Quote why it needs 3 years to be converted to 3rd rail when the 3rd
rail is already there is anyones guess. Usual lazy british contractors
who take 2 weeks to change a lightbulb no doubt. The extensions to the
line shouldn't effect the bit in the middle so I can't see a good
reason to close it.

As I mentioned recently, the work isn't taking 3 years. London
Underground are being given 3 months to pack up their things and
leave, and it's expected to be ready for test running by June 2009. So
that's a little over one year of construction. Plus their optimistic
projection is currently November 2009, which would make it closed for
less than two years.

U
--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Bear in mind also that the existing stations (except Canada Water,
which is of recent construction) will require to be upgraded to be DDA
compliant, which at Shadwell, Wapping and Rotherhithe, for example,
will require new lifts and cross-passageways. (Surrey Quays is a
surface station in a cutting, but this will probably require lifts as
there is little space for ramps.) I also suspect that the narrow
platforms at Wapping will have to be widened, which will involve
widening the tunnel - a major civil engineering task in its own right.
In addition, platforms will require to be lengthend, which at
Rotherhithe and Wapping will require opening out the tunnels (the new
class 378s will, I presume, be 20m vehicles whereas the A stock is
noticeably shorter).

In the case of the power supply, there will be a requirement to ensure
that stray traction return currents do not cause corrosion of running
rails, buried services etc; this will require significant work in its
own right. In addition, what is happening to the power system? Does it
transfer to NR ownership or does it remain in the ownership of the
consortium that owns the rest of the LU power supply system? Does it
need upgrading to cope with longer, heavier and more frequent trains?
If nothing else, new substations and feeder cables will be required on
the northern extension; the additional loadings resulting from this
may require upgrading of the power supply elsewhere, and possible
negotiations with the public electricity suppliers.

Then there is resignalling; I presume the line will be resignalled to
NR standards to achieve compatibility with the lines to its north and
south and to avoid the 378s having to be fitted with LUL train stops
as well as TPWS. Does anyone know what has been specified for the
signalling?

Finally, a new flyover is to be built at New Cross Gate to allow
northbound trains from the Brighton Line to gain access to the ELL.
This will require significant works in its own right.

As you can see, there is a lot more to it than meets the eye - HTH!

On Dec 22, 3:34*pm, wrote:
On Dec 22, 2:35*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:





On 22 Dec, 13:30, Boltar wrote:

Quote why it needs 3 years to be converted to 3rd rail when the 3rd
rail is already there is anyones guess. Usual lazy british contractors
who take 2 weeks to change a lightbulb no doubt. The extensions to the
line shouldn't effect the bit in the middle so I can't see a good
reason to close it.

As I mentioned recently, the work isn't taking 3 years. London
Underground are being given 3 months to pack up their things and
leave, and it's expected to be ready for test running by June 2009. So
that's a little over one year of construction. Plus their optimistic
projection is currently November 2009, which would make it closed for
less than two years.

U
--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Bear in mind also that the existing stations (except Canada Water,
which is of recent construction) will require to be upgraded to be DDA
compliant, which at Shadwell, Wapping and Rotherhithe, for example,
will require new lifts and cross-passageways. (Surrey Quays is a
surface station in a cutting, but this will probably require lifts as
there is little space for ramps.) I also suspect that the narrow
platforms at Wapping will have to be widened, which will involve
widening the tunnel - a major civil engineering task in its own right.
In addition, platforms will require to be lengthend, which at
Rotherhithe and Wapping will require opening out the tunnels (the new
class 378s will, I presume, be 20m vehicles whereas the A stock is
noticeably shorter).

In the case of the power supply, there will be a requirement to ensure
that stray traction return currents do not cause corrosion of running
rails, buried services etc; this will require significant work in its
own right. In addition, what is happening to the power system? Does it
transfer to NR ownership or does it remain in the ownership of the
consortium that owns the rest of the LU power supply system? Does it
need upgrading to cope with longer, heavier and more frequent trains?
If nothing else, new substations and feeder cables will be required on
the northern extension; the additional loadings resulting from this
may require upgrading of the power supply elsewhere, and possible
negotiations with the public electricity suppliers.

Then there is resignalling; I presume the line will be resignalled to
NR standards to achieve compatibility with the lines to its north and
south and to avoid the 378s having to be fitted with LUL train stops
as well as TPWS. Does anyone know what has been specified for the
signalling?

Finally, a new flyover is to be built at New Cross Gate to allow
northbound trains from the Brighton Line to gain access to the ELL.
This will require significant works in its own right.

As you can see, there is a lot more to it than meets the eye - HTH!-

My objection would not be how long it takes, but that it's the wrong
project. I don't understand why an orbital railway is such an
important goal. Well, I do. It's a way for a politician to make his
mark an a more obvious way than any general improvement in transport.

An orbital route might be a nice to have, but only in addition to the
radial routes, not replacing them. I've mentioned many times that the
trains from the Forest Hill direction are appallingly overcrowded. I
can't see how it improves things to shorten them to fit the ELL and
divert them to Hackney. Even if changing at Canada Water is not
perceived as an extra burden, it doesn't resolve the issue of the
short trains.

MIG wrote:

My objection would not be how long it takes, but that it's the wrong
project. I don't understand why an orbital railway is such an
important goal. Well, I do. It's a way for a politician to make his
mark an a more obvious way than any general improvement in transport.

An orbital route might be a nice to have, but only in addition to the
radial routes, not replacing them.

An orbital route is a very good thing to have. London is teaming with
radial transport, there's very little that goes round!

The North London Line as it is at the moment is too infrequent and
passes too many radial tube lines without connecting to them

On 22 Dec, 15:34, wrote:
which is of recent construction) will require to be upgraded to be DDA
compliant,

Why? And why does installing a lift require the whole station to close
anyway?

In addition, platforms will require to be lengthend, which at
Rotherhithe and Wapping will require opening out the tunnels (the new
class 378s will, I presume, be 20m vehicles whereas the A stock is
noticeably shorter).

You might have a point there.


In the case of the power supply, there will be a requirement to ensure
that stray traction return currents do not cause corrosion of running
rails, buried services etc; this will require significant work in its

Surely that was sorted when the line was closed last time?

Then there is resignalling; I presume the line will be resignalled to
NR standards to achieve compatibility with the lines to its north and
south and to avoid the 378s having to be fitted with LUL train stops
as well as TPWS. Does anyone know what has been specified for the
signalling?

Again ,. I don't see why the line would have to close for that. They
could just install the new system piece by piece until its ready to
be used.

Finally, a new flyover is to be built at New Cross Gate to allow
northbound trains from the Brighton Line to gain access to the ELL.
This will require significant works in its own right.

Again , I don't see why this would require closure of the line for 2
years.

As you can see, there is a lot more to it than meets the eye - HTH!

Seems to me they're just making their own life easier than actually
trying to accomodate the travelling public, who are after all, the
whole raison d'etre of the line in the first place!

B2003

Bear in mind also that the existing stations (except Canada Water,
which is of recent construction) will require to be upgraded to be DDA
compliant, which at Shadwell, Wapping and Rotherhithe, for example,
will require new lifts and cross-passageways. (Surrey Quays is a
surface station in a cutting, but this will probably require lifts as
there is little space for ramps.) I also suspect that the narrow
platforms at Wapping will have to be widened, which will involve
widening the tunnel - a major civil engineering task in its own right.
In addition, platforms will require to be lengthend, which at
Rotherhithe and Wapping will require opening out the tunnels (the new
class 378s will, I presume, be 20m vehicles whereas the A stock is
noticeably shorter).

Are lifts going in at these stations as you indicate? I was not aware
of such a plan. I also wasn't aware of any widening work, although
again I may be wrong.

Tom