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#21
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On Dec 26, 5:42*am, (Adrian the Rock) wrote:
The other extension to Crossrail that seems fairly obvious to me is to extend the trains currently planned to terminate at Paddington up the former GW&GC joint line. *Bring the Old Oak - Northolt East line back into proper use, rebuild the main line platforms at Greenford, making this the first stop out of Padd, then run all-stations to Princes Risboro and Aylesbury (some trains probably terminating at High Wycombe). *But this is clearly too extensive to be sensible to include in the initial project. Adie There are two issues with this idea. Firstly it would mean an expensive electrification of the route to Aylesbury by way of Prices Risborough. Secondly, there is the Birmingham service to consider. It would either have to remain a DMU operation with many miles under the wire, or would have to terminate at Risborough or High Wycombe. Adrian |
#22
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![]() "Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS" wrote in message ... On Dec 26, 5:42 am, (Adrian the Rock) wrote: The other extension to Crossrail that seems fairly obvious to me is to extend the trains currently planned to terminate at Paddington up the former GW&GC joint line. Bring the Old Oak - Northolt East line back into proper use, rebuild the main line platforms at Greenford, making this the first stop out of Padd, then run all-stations to Princes Risboro and Aylesbury (some trains probably terminating at High Wycombe). But this is clearly too extensive to be sensible to include in the initial project. Adie There are two issues with this idea. Firstly it would mean an expensive electrification of the route to Aylesbury by way of Prices Risborough. Provided it is done at the time that life expire stock is to be replaced, electrification is usually a lower cost option over the total life of the new stock, however expensive the actual conversion. Secondly, there is the Birmingham service to consider. It would either have to remain a DMU operation with many miles under the wire, Well this wouldn't be the first time. Cross country runs "under the wire" all the way from Birmingham to Manchester and York to Edinburgh, which is much further than this piddly little bit of track to PR. tim |
#23
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#24
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#26
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![]() "Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message ... In article , (tim.....) wrote: "Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS" wrote in message ... On Dec 26, 5:42 am, (Adrian the Rock) wrote: The other extension to Crossrail that seems fairly obvious to me is to extend the trains currently planned to terminate at Paddington up the former GW&GC joint line. Bring the Old Oak - Northolt East line back into proper use, rebuild the main line platforms at Greenford, making this the first stop out of Padd, then run all-stations to Princes Risboro and Aylesbury (some trains probably terminating at High Wycombe). But this is clearly too extensive to be sensible to include in the initial project. There are two issues with this idea. Firstly it would mean an expensive electrification of the route to Aylesbury by way of Prices Risborough. Provided it is done at the time that life expire stock is to be replaced, electrification is usually a lower cost option over the total life of the new stock, however expensive the actual conversion. Secondly, there is the Birmingham service to consider. It would either have to remain a DMU operation with many miles under the wire, Well this wouldn't be the first time. Cross country runs "under the wire" all the way from Birmingham to Manchester and York to Edinburgh, which is much further than this piddly little bit of track to PR. How much longer though? Do you mean in time? Surely that's irrelevent. The principle has been established for the past 10 (ish) years. Aren't some of those routes being handed over to VWC? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
#27
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Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Richard J.) wrote: According to Barker & Robbins (A History of London Transport), the Gunnersbury branch was authorised in 1913. So before it was decided to take over the route from Hammersmith, on which regular services ceased in 1916, instead. Yes, Barker & Robbins say that a short tunnel to link Shepherd's Bush (Central Railway) to the old LSWR route via Hammersmith Grove Road was authorised in 1920, but that never came to anything either. The LSWR tracks were later incorporated into the 1932 scheme which extended the Piccadilly west of Hammersmith. Actually, the 1920 map already shows an extension of the Piccadilly to Ravenscourt Park. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
#28
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"tim....." writes:
Well this wouldn't be the first time. Cross country runs "under the wire" all the way from Birmingham to Manchester and York to Edinburgh, which is much further than this piddly little bit of track to PR. Which they did not used to do. I remember just after the Leamington Spa to Coventry line was re-opened to passenger traffic that trains between the South Coast and Liverpool/Manchester used to swap between Diesel and Electric traction at Coventry (as well as often changing locos at Reading rather than the pre-voyager practice of the same loco having to run round) |
#29
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On Fri, 28 Dec 2007, Richard J. wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote: On Fri, 28 Dec 2007, Mr Thant wrote: On 28 Dec, 09:57, "Paul Scott" wrote: Could they not just transfer that bit back to the District line using a few more of the new S stock to provide the traction, and up the Picc frequency to Heathrow? But then you'd have to take trains away from the other District branches, or find more capacity further east. Rumour is that the District Ealing Broadway and Piccadilly Uxbridge branches will swap over at some point, but I don't think this plan has any official status. New to me. There's been a plan hanging around for decades now for a couple of miles of tunnel from Shepherd's Bush to Turnham Green, by means of which the Central line could take over the Richmond branch of the District. It even made the Tube Map in (I think) 1920, with a branch of the Central London Railway from Shepherd's Bush to Gunnersbury shown as "under construction", though it never was AFAIK. According to this map poster, which is on show at the Museum Depot during open weekends, stations were planned at Goldhawk Road, Stamford Brook Common, Is that (the common) he http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51.4...&t=h&z=17&om=1 ? I can't actually find anything marked with that name on any maps! If it is, i'm a little surprised it was quite that far west - i would have thought Seven Stars Corner (Addenswick Rd x Goldhawk Rd) would have been a better location. Seems not! Turnham Green (next to the existing station), Turnham Green (near the green) and Gunnersbury. The Central extension from Wood Lane to Ealing Broadway is also shown as "under construction", and it was opened later in 1920. It seems strange that they wanted to keep the route in tunnel all the way to Gunnersbury; the current track layout means you can surface at Turnham Green and go from there (via Chiswick Park, ish) without getting in anyone's way. Maybe it wasn't always like that, or they thought a stop at the Green itself was more useful. There's a photo of the map at http://rjnews.fotopic.net/p47472218.html Splendid! Although that map's geography is a bit suspect with respect to the exact positions of roads and stations and things. tom -- unconstrained by any considerations of humanity or decency |
#30
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![]() "Tom Anderson" wrote It seems strange that they wanted to keep the route in tunnel all the way to Gunnersbury; the current track layout means you can surface at Turnham Green and go from there (via Chiswick Park, ish) without getting in anyone's way. Maybe it wasn't always like that, or they thought a stop at the Green itself was more useful. The situation in 1920 was that the District had been electrified by 1905 to Wimbledon, Richmond, Hounslow Barracks (later renamed West), Ealing Broadway, and South Harrow. This used the LSWR between Hammersmith (Studland Road Junction) and Turnham Green, though this section had been quadrupled in 1905, with the District having sole use of the southern electrified pair. The LSWR service, which used the northern pair, ran from Addison Road (now Olympia) via Hammersmith Grove Road to Richmond, and was withdrawn in 1916, leaving this pair of lines derelict (but still in the ownership of the LSWR). This meant that the District was congested west of Earls Court, so the proposal to extend the Central Line to Richmond would have provided relief. In the event, the LSWR service was never reinstated. In 1932 tracks between Hammersmith and Turnham Green were rearranged, quadrupling was extended to Northfields, and the Piccadilly was extended to take over the Hounslow and South Harrow (extended to Rayners Lane and over the Met to Uxbridge) lines. Even then, Studland Road Junction to Turnham Green remained in SR ownership, leased to the District (as part of the Underground group, soon to be absorbed into the London Passenger Transport Board). Peter |
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