Ed Crowley wrote:
"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
Ed Crowley wrote:
Computers are better at driving trains than humans. Also,
having a member of staff on every platform has to be
cheaper than staff on some platforms plus a driver on
every
train. Why couldn't the platform staff be trained to
fix/drive trains in an emergency? It would make their
jobs
more interesting and varied to boot ...

Technically, you may be correct. However there is one
fundamental point invariably overlooked by proponents of
such courses of action. "People like people", i.e.
passengers like to know there is someone on hand to deal
with a situation as it arises. IIRC when the Victoria Line
was being planned and built the tyechnology would have
allowed driverless trains. The system you propose is
feasible on the DLR. It is the human factor that keeps a
member of staff actually on the train.

IMO it's better to have visible staff on every platform
than locked away at the front of the train.

Most people prefer both. Given the option I expect most people would also
prefer to have someone on the back of the train as well. Unfortunately the
people who actually run the Underground have had to play the part of a
football. Hopefully that role will now be in the past (but I'm not holding
my breath).

"Ed Crowley" wrote in message t...
I would imagine an engineer would be called. What happens on the
driver-less airport shuttle trains such as those at Stanstead and Gatwick?

I think theres a slight difference between a mickey mouse 1 car people
mover on a half mile above ground track with a few dozen people on board
and a tube train with 800 passengers and 8 cars underground in the heat!

B2003

Boltar wrote:
"Ed Crowley" wrote in message
t...
I would imagine an engineer would be called. What happens on the
driver-less airport shuttle trains such as those at Stanstead and
Gatwick?

I think theres a slight difference between a mickey mouse 1 car
people mover on a half mile above ground track with a few dozen
people on board and a tube train with 800 passengers and 8 cars
underground in the heat!

Does anyone know if there are any Métro staff on board the trains on line 14
in Paris, which have ATO and no driver at the front? (Good view for
passengers though!)
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

"Ed Crowley" wrote in message t...
"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...

"Ed Crowley" wrote in message
...

"Richard J." wrote in message
...
CJG wrote:
If DLR can run without drivers. Why can't the Victoria line have the
drivers turfed out of the cab and down checking tickets.
I know there is a higher frequency of trains on Victoria than DLR.
But
surely if DLR can run safety with no drivers then underground lines
can?

DLR trains have a train captain (or whatever they're now called) whose
duties include opening and closing the doors, and making sure that
this
is
done safely. He can do this from any of a number of points on the
train
because the trains are short and the trains were designed that way.

On the tube, trains are much longer, hence TV is needed to enable the
train
operator to close the doors safely with full visibility of the
platform
(some of which are curved, unlike DLR). In practice this means that
the
screens are either in the cab or at the front of the platform.
Duplicate
screens and other equipment could be provided elsewhere in principle,
but
I
don't see how the extra cost could be justified.

Couldn't a button be fitted on the platform that allows platform staff
to
close the train doors when safe? You then wouldn't need any staff on
the
trains at all ...

And what happens when the train comes to a sudden stop due to mechanical
failure? Are all passengers going to be trained in remedying faults?

I would imagine an engineer would be called. What happens on the
driver-less airport shuttle trains such as those at Stanstead and Gatwick?

A platform runs all the way alongside the 'train' at gatwick

In message , Colin McKenzie
writes
Do DLR trains get less internal vandalism than tube trains because the
train crew wanders around instead of staying locked in a cab?

I can't say I use DLR that often. Maybe three times a month at most. But
they do seem a lot less vandalised than LU trains.
--
CJG

In message , Cast_Iron
writes
"People like people", i.e. passengers like to know there is someone on
hand to deal with a situation as it arises.

But the whole point is. Have the train driver checking tickets and
making a presence felt on the train. If the train breaks down or any
technical problem. They can sort out the problem quickly. As they are
already on the train.
Maybe the drivers wouldn't like the idea of leaving the cab and having
to deal with the customers....
--
CJG

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:48:55 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Boltar wrote:
"Ed Crowley" wrote in message
t...
I would imagine an engineer would be called. What happens on the
driver-less airport shuttle trains such as those at Stanstead and
Gatwick?

I think theres a slight difference between a mickey mouse 1 car
people mover on a half mile above ground track with a few dozen
people on board and a tube train with 800 passengers and 8 cars
underground in the heat!

Does anyone know if there are any Métro staff on board the trains on line 14
in Paris, which have ATO and no driver at the front? (Good view for
passengers though!)

From memory there are no staff on the trains. I believe that the VAL
trains in Lille and elsewhere in France also have no on board staff. The
new North Easy line in Singapore is also driverless but staff do
sometimes travel on trains - there are always people in the stations.
Berlin have also tested driverless capability on one of the U Bahn lines
recently.

It is not beyond the wit of operators to provide driverless trains that
prove to be entirely acceptable to the travelling public. I would accept
that there is a cultural issue to deal with in London concerning
completely staff less trains - especially with regard to the current
level of unreliability; passenger information, safety, security and
vandalism issues. A lot of work would be needed to switch LUL lines to
a fully automated mode.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

As Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:40:46 +0100 appeared fresh and rosy-fingered,
"Ed Crowley" wrote:

I would imagine an engineer would be called. What happens on the
driver-less airport shuttle trains such as those at Stanstead and Gatwick?

There are walkways next to the tracks at Gatwick.

I don't know about Stanstead - I was once booked to go on a tour of
the transit system there, but some Afghans decided to hijack a plane
on the same day. When I went there to fly somewhere it was broken, and
we got bussed.
--
Arthur Figgis
Surrey Interested in the
UK Hull & Barnsley Railway?
http://www.hullandbarnsleyrailway.org.uk

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
There have also been cases where people have broken into
drivers cabs and beaten them up.

Really? I've never heard of that before. What's your source for this
information?

In message , Ed Crowley
writes

There have also been cases where people have broken into
drivers cabs and beaten them up.

Really? I've never heard of that before. What's your source for this
information?

It happened a couple of weeks ago when a Jubilee driver was assaulted at
Bermondsey and required hospital treatment.

I think you'll find it was in the Evening Standard.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)