"Neill":
It suddenly struck me yesterday when I was up in London, why do TFL
still use the old British Rail logo? Whenever you get to a station
with an overground rail connection, there are signs saying "Trains"
with an arrow and the old logo.

Lewis Cox:
It's *not* an old logo. Every railway station in the country shows that
logo - its accepted as the standard design in the UK meaning "Railway",
regardless of who is running the trains. National Rail still use it, maps
still use it... why would you change it?

Well, some might prefer it to be changed because it seems to imply that
there is a still a single organization responsible for all those trains.
On the other hand, some also might prefer to leave it alone just on the
off-chance that that situation comes to pass again.

In fact I'd also like to what they
think the things that run on the Underground are if not "trains"?

In non enthusiast speak, they are tubes - even the sub-surface stock.

Well, I think enough people know them as "tube trains" for that
explanation not to fly. Consider also all those signs that say
things like "1st *train* - High Barnet - 1 min" (emphasis added).

I suggest, instead, that when the signs read "BR sign trains", the
symbol is meant to be interpreted as an adjective, so it's national
rail trains as opposed to tube trains.
--
Mark Brader "The routes 'London' and 'not London' are
Toronto not necessarily mutually exclusive."
--Tim Stevens for ATOC, UK

My text in this article is in the public domain.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 06:49:08 -0000, (Mark Brader) wrote:

Well, some might prefer it to be changed because it seems to imply that
there is a still a single organization responsible for all those trains.

Why does it have to represent that? I suppose we could go over to the
"European" symbol (the front view of a train) but why confuse people?

In any case, even if it is operated by a lot of companies, it is still
(just about) a single integrated network.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Mark Brader:
Well, some might prefer it to be changed because it seems to imply that
there is a still a single organization responsible for all those trains.

Neil Williams:
Why does it have to represent that?

Where did I say "has to"?
--
Mark Brader "Never re-invent the wheel unnecessarily;
Toronto yours may have corners."
-- Henry Spencer

On 29 Dec, 00:36, "Lew 1" wrote:

It's *not* an old logo. Every railway station in the country shows that
logo

Not quite every station. St Pancras has only HS1 logos, not a BR
Double Arrow in sight!

On Dec 29, 11:28 am, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:
On 29 Dec, 00:36, "Lew 1" wrote:

It's *not* an old logo. Every railway station in the country shows that
logo

Not quite every station. St Pancras has only HS1 logos, not a BR
Double Arrow in sight!

Nor do stations served only by the UndergrounD. The logo is used only
for the 'National Rail' network. At privatisation this was easy to
define as all lines owned by Railtrack. Not so simple now.

In article
,
(umpston) wrote:

On Dec 29, 11:28 am, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:
On 29 Dec, 00:36, "Lew 1"
wrote:

It's *not* an old logo. Every railway station in the country
shows that logo

Not quite every station. St Pancras has only HS1 logos, not a BR
Double Arrow in sight!

Nor do stations served only by the UndergrounD. The logo is used only
for the 'National Rail' network. At privatisation this was easy to
define as all lines owned by Railtrack. Not so simple now.

So why isn't used at St Pancras International? It is served by two
'National Rail' TOCs, East Midlands Trains and First Capital Connect.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article
,
(umpston) wrote:

On Dec 29, 11:28 am, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:
On 29 Dec, 00:36, "Lew 1"
wrote:

It's *not* an old logo. Every railway station in the country
shows that logo

Not quite every station. St Pancras has only HS1 logos, not a BR
Double Arrow in sight!

Nor do stations served only by the UndergrounD. The logo is used only
for the 'National Rail' network. At privatisation this was easy to
define as all lines owned by Railtrack. Not so simple now.

So why isn't used at St Pancras International? It is served by two
'National Rail' TOCs, East Midlands Trains and First Capital Connect.


IIRC Network Rail didn't take over management of St Pancras International #
until mid December - might that have something to do with it?

# where the NR site says, on the media release about the Thameslink
platforms: "Network Rail already manages the entire St Pancras International
station" - do they really mean the Eurostar aspects as well? IIRC when the
traffic management and temporary signage was being discussed a few weeks ago
it was generally consider that NR had nothing to do with St Pancras
operational aspects

Paul

On Dec 29, 2:08 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article
,

(umpston) wrote:
On Dec 29, 11:28 am, Standing at HN28 signal
wrote:
On 29 Dec, 00:36, "Lew 1"
wrote:

It's *not* an old logo. Every railway station in the country
shows that logo

Not quite every station. St Pancras has only HS1 logos, not a BR
Double Arrow in sight!

Nor do stations served only by the UndergrounD. The logo is used only
for the 'National Rail' network. At privatisation this was easy to
define as all lines owned by Railtrack. Not so simple now.

So why isn't used at St Pancras International? It is served by two
'National Rail' TOCs, East Midlands Trains and First Capital Connect.


Well crumbs I don't know! However my statement that the logo is used
only for the National Rail network still holds true - I haven't heard
of any non national-rail stations where it is used only of some NR
stations where for some reason it isn't.

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 04:46:13 -0800 (PST), umpston wrote:

It's *not* an old logo. Every railway station in the country shows that
logo

Not quite every station. St Pancras has only HS1 logos, not a BR
Double Arrow in sight!

Nor do stations served only by the UndergrounD. The logo is used only
for the 'National Rail' network. At privatisation this was easy to
define as all lines owned by Railtrack.

Err, no.

e.g. Harrow-on-the-Hill had a double arrow logo outside at the time of
privatisation (and still does).

On Dec 30, 3:24 pm, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 04:46:13 -0800 (PST), umpston wrote:
It's *not* an old logo. Every railway station in the country shows that
logo

Not quite every station. St Pancras has only HS1 logos, not a BR
Double Arrow in sight!

Nor do stations served only by the UndergrounD. The logo is used only
for the 'National Rail' network. At privatisation this was easy to
define as all lines owned by Railtrack.

Err, no.

e.g. Harrow-on-the-Hill had a double arrow logo outside at the time of
privatisation (and still does).

And were there not Railtrack lines running via this station? Please
explain.