Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change. And even
having £1 fare is still going to involve change (notes and £2 coins). So
why not introduce exact fare only. No change at all. The money could go
into secure boxes that the driver has no access to. This happens in
other parts of the country and maybe its been tried before in London. So
good or bad idea?
--
CJG

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:20:58 +0100, CJG
wrote:

Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change. And even
having £1 fare is still going to involve change (notes and £2 coins). So
why not introduce exact fare only. No change at all. The money could go
into secure boxes that the driver has no access to. This happens in
other parts of the country and maybe its been tried before in London. So
good or bad idea?

London Buses are ahead of you.

How about no cash on the bus at all?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/about-pay-before.shtml

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:18:11 +0100, CJG
wrote:

In message , Robert Woolley
writes
How about no cash on the bus at all?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/about-pay-before.shtml

I knew about that. There are still benefits to paying by cash. If you
forget/lose your Oyster is just ONE example.
So why not let people still pay by cash but exact fare instead. And even
for a temporary measure for now its a good idea. Ken says buses won't be
100% cashless till 2006. So for next three years make everyone pay exact
fare and after a bit of confusion to start with things will speed up

So, let me get this right.

TfL pays for each bus to be fitted with a farebox to enforce exact
fare only.

Three years later 7,000 fare boxes get removed and thrown away at vast
expense.

What part of the phrase "value for money" does this meet?

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

In article , Neil Williams
writes
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:18:11 +0100, CJG
wrote:

I knew about that. There are still benefits to paying by cash. If you
forget/lose your Oyster is just ONE example.
So why not let people still pay by cash but exact fare instead. And even
for a temporary measure for now its a good idea. Ken says buses won't be
100% cashless till 2006. So for next three years make everyone pay exact
fare and after a bit of confusion to start with things will speed up

Why not let them still pay cash - at a ticket machine off the bus?
This is what is being done.

Incidentally, does anyone know if the machines allow overpayment (now
a one day bus pass is gbp2.50 - previously, of course, if you didn't
have a quid you could just buy a pass) or if they allow a gbp2 coin to
be inserted for the purchase of 2 single tickets? I always use a
Travelcard in London, so I doubt I'm going to get chance to try...

Neil

One of the reasons for this is so that the buses don't spend so long at
each stop as the driver isn't delaying pax boarding by having to issue
tickets etc. Also cuts down on the chance of theft or fraud on ticket
revenue.
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:18:11 +0100, CJG
wrote:


Incidentally, does anyone know if the machines allow overpayment (now
a one day bus pass is gbp2.50 - previously, of course, if you didn't
have a quid you could just buy a pass) or if they allow a gbp2 coin to
be inserted for the purchase of 2 single tickets? I always use a
Travelcard in London, so I doubt I'm going to get chance to try...

Neil

The machines do look very similar to those found in some Pay and Display car
parks, which generally do not allow over payment, i only presume the
software on the new machines will be similar, and probably not give change
either?

CJG wrote:
Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change.
And even having £1 fare is still going to involve change
(notes and £2 coins). So why not introduce exact fare only.
No change at all. The money could go into secure boxes that
the driver has no access to. This happens in other parts
of the country and maybe its been tried before in London.
So good or bad idea?

I recall visiting Crawley on one occasion (not my idea). Walked out of the
railway station and found the bus stop near the bus oerators office. It was
only as I got on the bus that it revealed to me that it was "Exact Fare
Only". There was absolutly nothing on the stop nor anywhere else to warn me.
Do something about that situtation and I can see no problem with the idea.

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
CJG wrote:
Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change.
And even having £1 fare is still going to involve change
(notes and £2 coins). So why not introduce exact fare only.
No change at all. The money could go into secure boxes that
the driver has no access to. This happens in other parts
of the country and maybe its been tried before in London.
So good or bad idea?

I recall visiting Crawley on one occasion (not my idea). Walked out of the
railway station and found the bus stop near the bus oerators office. It
was
only as I got on the bus that it revealed to me that it was "Exact Fare
Only". There was absolutly nothing on the stop nor anywhere else to warn
me.
Do something about that situtation and I can see no problem with the idea.

I tried to pay a £1 fare in Reading with a £5 note. The driver has no
access to change, each passenger drops a pound coin in a box as they enter.
Luckily there were enough passengers behind me to allow me to collect four
fares and stick the fiver in the box ...

Ed Crowley wrote:
"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
CJG wrote:
Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change.
And even having £1 fare is still going to involve change
(notes and £2 coins). So why not introduce exact fare
only.
No change at all. The money could go into secure boxes
that
the driver has no access to. This happens in other parts
of the country and maybe its been tried before in London.
So good or bad idea?

I recall visiting Crawley on one occasion (not my idea).
Walked out of the railway station and found the bus stop
near the bus oerators office. It was only as I got on the
bus that it revealed to me that it was "Exact Fare Only".
There was absolutly nothing on the stop nor anywhere else
to warn me. Do something about that situtation and I can
see no problem with the idea.

I tried to pay a £1 fare in Reading with a £5 note. The
driver has no access to change, each passenger drops a
pound coin in a box as they enter. Luckily there were
enough passengers behind me to allow me to collect four
fares and stick the fiver in the box ...

A happy result for those concerened, but if there had been no other cash
fare paying passengers?

"Ed Crowley" wrote in message
...

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
CJG wrote:
Buses are slowed down so much with drivers getting change.
And even having £1 fare is still going to involve change
(notes and £2 coins). So why not introduce exact fare only.
No change at all. The money could go into secure boxes that
the driver has no access to. This happens in other parts
of the country and maybe its been tried before in London.
So good or bad idea?

I recall visiting Crawley on one occasion (not my idea). Walked out of
the
railway station and found the bus stop near the bus oerators office. It
was
only as I got on the bus that it revealed to me that it was "Exact Fare
Only". There was absolutly nothing on the stop nor anywhere else to warn
me.
Do something about that situtation and I can see no problem with the
idea.

I tried to pay a £1 fare in Reading with a £5 note. The driver has no
access to change, each passenger drops a pound coin in a box as they
enter.
Luckily there were enough passengers behind me to allow me to collect four
fares and stick the fiver in the box ...

I am VERY much against the idea of exact-fare-only buses and
buy-in-advance-ticket machines being the *only* way of buying tickets. By
all means encourage people to buy tickets in advance if they have suitable
change, but don't prevent people being able to buy tickets with whatever
cash they happen to have, as a last resort.

To expect people who only buy tickets occasionally (so wouldn't use Oyster)
or who don't know the fare (tourists etc) to have the exact change available
is unreasonable. It requires every intending passenger to carry sufficient
loose change to be able to pay any fare. It is far better for this burden to
be placed on the provider of the service (the driver and/or conductor) than
it is to place it on every customer (passenger).

Anyway, what about the delays while tourists who don't know the fare count
out their coins to meet the "exact fare" requirement? What about if you have
the correct fare but not in the coins that the ticket machine will accept -
there is a growing trend for ticket machines (especially in car parks) to
only accept some coins (eg not copper or not 5p). To require people to carry
not only sufficient change but also in the correct denominations is
LUDICROUS.

In the case of the Reading buses, they actually have the cheek to describe
their "exact fare" scheme as being "more convenient" (placards on the sides
of buses). How can a system that won't give change be *more* convenient? It
is *less* convenient from the passenger's point of view.

In article ,
(Robert Woolley) wrote:

TfL pays for each bus to be fitted with a farebox to enforce exact
fare only.

Three years later 7,000 fare boxes get removed and thrown away at vast
expense.

Why do you say "thrown away"? Aren't they still in use outside Central
London?

--
Colin Rosenstiel